i don't have an exact solution but a few things did come to mind..... turn your headlights on and look to see if the bubble on the fueling table moves. If it does, then your map sensor is wired incorrectly. Those loud hiroshima style backfires can be the o2 sensor lighting off unburned fuel in the exhaust.
20+ year owner gets ripped off, desperately needs help.
- Thread starter RainmakerJr
- Start date
TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
I hate to hear you are having such a time with your car. I'm pretty sure I know who worked on it and I wouldn't recommend anyone take their tricycle there much less their turbo regal. They were great way back when if it is the place I am thinking of but not so much now.
I'm inclined to agree with the above that a stock ecm be reinstalled and the car be running again before moving on to modifications. This installation of a whole new computer system is akin to many changes and adding a non-running engine or nonfunctional ignition just adds to the problems. The engine and such needs to be right.
I'm guessing high 10s are your goal and this can be attained with the stock stuff. i like the kiss method and adding a whole nuther computer to a car that isn't running well before starting the install borders on insanity. Or at least it does to me.
Let us know how you proceed. I'd help if I had knowledge of the bs3, but that offer stands with anything I might could do. Let me know.
I'm inclined to agree with the above that a stock ecm be reinstalled and the car be running again before moving on to modifications. This installation of a whole new computer system is akin to many changes and adding a non-running engine or nonfunctional ignition just adds to the problems. The engine and such needs to be right.
I'm guessing high 10s are your goal and this can be attained with the stock stuff. i like the kiss method and adding a whole nuther computer to a car that isn't running well before starting the install borders on insanity. Or at least it does to me.
Let us know how you proceed. I'd help if I had knowledge of the bs3, but that offer stands with anything I might could do. Let me know.
Yep I think its a few miles from me and once again were talking about the same sob taking peoples money. I don't think I can do much help if its heavy modified unless you wanna go back to stock at this point. There is Charlie in Waco or Jack in Rockwall (hopefully he survived the tornado's lol). Idk if they will give it a shot or not fixing someone else's failed attempt. Nick is the one of the best in the country if you want to ship it to Az. Good luck!
RainmakerJr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2016
Major Nutz
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2003
Sorry to hear about your mess. I know the shop very well, wasted time and money there back in the day. I'll drive 2 hours to Jack Laswell for anything I can't do myself. He's the ONLY one I trust around here. And the shop in question is only 9 min. down the road!
Last edited:
RainmakerJr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2016
Thanks for the offer to come help Rich, I'm going to take you up on it!! When we were on strike at Bell Helicopter, the union brothers at UPS refused to deliver packages there, that's solidarity!!
Yes it was the person you said and the same one all other members from Texas have mentioned. Now he doesn't answer his phone and keeps his gates locked so no access.
The convertor is an old Art Carr 9" 3200 non lock up in a 200r4 built by Pheonix transmission in Weatherford . Not sure the turbo, but its not large by any means. Stock appearing with a bell, back in the day was step above TA 49 (lost that when new motor ate itself). I'm guessing there are some i.d. numbers to reference this?
Besides a dead brake accumulator, the car was running and driving when he got it. My main issue was lumpy idle 900 - 1200 , was gasping and could smell the fuel in the air. When driving all was good, made good power and was more than willing to do it. But these were easy runs (10psi max) just to knock the dust off and circulate fluids. I wanted the BS3 for ease of tune, wb 02 and to connect to racepak so I could get rid of all the gauges. I wanted less hammer and more sewing machine LOL.
This is so difficult because of all the variables. I didn't do the work - multiple parts installed at one time and because of the age of most mods stuff might have broke just because old.
My goal is to simply get it running and driving again. Back to the basics. A 10 second pass is way further down the road. I don't trust the old fuel pump - injectors and regulator because of age and effects of old gas anyway . I learned this when a line on the Kenne Bell hood mounted fuel gauge burst right after I parked it and raised the hood catching the car and my aim pit on fire!! No damage other than my pride LOL. When I called KB to order another line they said hadn't made one of those in over 10 years. 3 days later I got a package from them with a free line they had made with a note saying sorry and thanks for my support.... Classy!!
I think your cam sensor tool and another set of eyes will go along way. Sometimes we stare at things too long and miss the obvious. Let me know what weekend is convenient for you and I will be available!!! The car is in a heated garage. In the meantime I have made a list and will check all the stuff members have suggested.
I am very moved with all the help and support I have received!! Thanks Guys!!
Pronto
Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2002
Sounds to me you could easily have a good running engine with a modern chip and going over every system. Your build is not that wild. I've seen tame sounding 9 second cars running on a chip and they are street driven all the time. If you want to do deeper tuning the SD2 chip is a choice but it you're not experienced a 6.1 would be a good solution. A modern converter would be nice improvement too. The only thing in your build that concerns me is the hyper pistons...
TexasT
Texas, Where are you from
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
We can bring the fuel pressure gauge too. And the noid light to see about injector pulse. Kinda starting from scratch as we don't know what has been goofed with.
Gotta have fuel, gotta have spark and now that there has been a back fire we should probably run a compression check. Do you have an air compressor we could do a leak down. Just to get a baseline on where we are and what might need done.
Gotta have fuel, gotta have spark and now that there has been a back fire we should probably run a compression check. Do you have an air compressor we could do a leak down. Just to get a baseline on where we are and what might need done.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
I would rather see a stock ecm in it as well but that doesn't mean it won't run with a BS3.
Checking cam sensor timing with minimal tools the old fashion way:
Unplug the module.
Pull #1 spark plug.
Pull the cam sensor cap off.
Using a compression checker or your finger in #1 hole, tap the key until #1 fires compression checker or blows your finger off. Now look at the wheel on the cam sensor.The window on the wheel should be facing the wires on the cap when it's installed. If it's close you can loosen the hold down bolt and turn the sensor. If it's 180* out then it will need to be pulled and re dropped. I doubt that's the case. Being that you get a backfire, it's on the edge of the setting. Personally I would skip all that bs and just turn the sensor a little at a time until it starts. I guarantee that's your problem.
Checking cam sensor timing with minimal tools the old fashion way:
Unplug the module.
Pull #1 spark plug.
Pull the cam sensor cap off.
Using a compression checker or your finger in #1 hole, tap the key until #1 fires compression checker or blows your finger off. Now look at the wheel on the cam sensor.The window on the wheel should be facing the wires on the cap when it's installed. If it's close you can loosen the hold down bolt and turn the sensor. If it's 180* out then it will need to be pulled and re dropped. I doubt that's the case. Being that you get a backfire, it's on the edge of the setting. Personally I would skip all that bs and just turn the sensor a little at a time until it starts. I guarantee that's your problem.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
Huh? Been around efi for a long time.. Never heard of this. Care to explain?
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
I assume from this statement, it backfired thru the intake, not the exhaust?
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2002
I think Surej is concerned that the MAP sensor 5V power is still coming from the dashboard cluster and not coming from the BS3 ECM. The dashboard cluster 5V power is garbage and really makes a mess of the MAP sensor data.
I have seen a few cars that after extended cranking with fuel dumping, the wideband O2 sensor lights off the fuel in a very loud bang. I believe it's the heater in the wideband that does this.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
What I was thinking. Seems odd it could get that hot.
- Joined
- May 28, 2001
I think I've seen the "suspect" shop in the "headlines", over on either the Bullet, or LS1 tech..
Dukes seems to draw fire from several places...Good place to stay away from.
Dukes seems to draw fire from several places...Good place to stay away from.
RainmakerJr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2016
A little more back story..... When I took the car to the shop he was to do the followings - replaced the outer door sills so water wouldn't enter the door. Brake accumulator - front and rear bumper fillers and I had the front and rear bumpers filled and smoothed. Performance wise was the intercooler - 70mm TB , upper intake and BS3. The first 3 because they were the obvious bottlenecks and go hand in hand to connect the tubing. The BS3 was what I thought would work best for me to tune it. If you include the incurred costs and the fact I had to buy (2) BS3 that was $10,000 dropped. I'm not a rich man and my wallet is still smoking LOL
Remember when I brought it there my Pops was sick and I was on a deadline. My plan THEN was after I got it back to copy Scott's GNS Performance car suspension - add alky - crank the boost - throw slicks on - and make one Hail Mary pass. Things have changed. Never got the chance and no longer have that deadline.
My car is far from wild. Yes a simple chip change with a good tune would have been sufficient. It's kinda like the front mount vs stock location intercooler thing. Both camps have their reasons and both can run the numbers. It all comes down to personal preference.
My combination is very dated. I have 2 waste gates remember LOL? Back then that was exotic racecar stuff and was pre internet. A lot of the other non performance parts came from Bowling Green Customs - Kenne Bell - and Kirban. Why? Cause those dudes sent me catalogs in the mail LOL The turbo - convertor - DP and single waste gate are on the list. I know now the Hyper pistons suck but I will keep the boost down before I rebuild a motor with 1000 miles.
RainmakerJr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2016
Because the car was in the garage with the echo it's difficult to say where it originated. But all signs point to what members have said, it was the o2 sensor lighting the fuel in the downpipe. Don't think intake cause would have blown the hoses off. Plus I saw evidence on the garage floor muffler dust had blown out the tailpipes.
RainmakerJr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2016
Yes I have air compressor and good set of tools. No compression tester though.
Although old... pre shop - my car was very solid. Except for CAM, all sensors - coil pack - module have been changed over the years. Within the past 5 I replaced both battery cables and injector harness - all from Casper. And thanks to the battery tender always fired right up no issues.
I really believe (ok.. I CHOOSE to believe LOL) That the basics of verifying TPS, CAM, MAP and Coil Pack etc. will solve the problem and she will fire up. This week I'm going to pull the coil pack apart and make sure the wires are not crossed like a member suggested. Since I don't know for sure if it's even MY parts the dude put back on the car.
My immediate goal is just to get the car running so I can deal with the shop. I realize I will probably never see a dime of the $$ and it's really not even about that. He robbed me of a chance for my Pop's to see it. And for that he doesn't get a pass!!
RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
A WB sensor does run that hot, the ceramic element glows red. The older NTK sensor (L1H1) used in Honda's run at 700* C to 900* C (1292* F - 1652* F). And the heater is strong enough that hot exhaust gas isn't required to get to that temperature.
I've lit off a near stoich propane mix with one, not once but twice. I learned to avoid doing that, it's hard on the ears.
RemoveBeforeFlight
