NON LOCK CONVERTER DRIVEABILITY?

[kidglok]

Pure BS unless your out of the gas and coasting as NO NLU has zero slip hence why there are lockup converters in the first place.

To make it believable you shouldn't have posted a true 1 to 1 rpm driveshaft ratio. Also I run at 1,700 rpm at 60 so I'm curious as to how you get that mileage at those rpms.

I'd also love to see those MPGs , where did you buy your one off turbo diesel TR it must be worth a fortune.

Not hating on you just calling BS when I see it.

RZ

You must be off your rocker because that's based off a hall effect driveshaft speed sensor mounted off the yolk. Your calling bs on my post when I have data to back it up (unlike some other people's post)

And I'm not coasting because the tps is 7% which is where I'm at during a light cruise (between 7-10 to be exact). And like i said, it's not ALWAYS at zero, but it's within 50rpm based off the resolution of the sensor. And that MPG is based off those conditions, obviously a whole trip won't average that because the driving habits have to change based on the conditions your driving thru (which is tru no matter what)




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[robzombie]

 

[kidglok]

Roll your eyes somewhere else rozbombie


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[bison]

I tried to be respectful and have a serious conversation about something being made that is better than what PTC is putting out, whether it's a LU or NLU.

So far we have seen zero proof of this. If there was proof you could bet your left nut id be using it and promoting it. In fact i just dynoed another car today that spooled like a champ, had very linear road hp (which btw means the converter is working very well, and was within 4% of peak hp the entire pull form the second it got near full boost. Or should i say about the half second it took to reach full boost. Guess what? It had a PTC 9.5" in it. Big surprise isnt it. 10.60 power that spools very fast and cruises with almost zero slip and he drove it here from NJ in the 100 degree heat.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I never stated that billet magically transforms the way a converter acts and drives. So stop putting words in my mouth and being a smart ass.

I tried to be respectful and have a serious conversation about something being made that is better than what PTC is putting out, whether it's a LU or NLU.

I new you would be closed minded and try to mock me and apparently you need to be schooled [OH CONVERTER MASTER]on what's possible with converters being made by people other than PTC. I hope that people with open minds go up against a PTC and show them what's possible with one of his converters.

Why is it that when I originally was looking for a converter and talked to you, you were helpful, nice and respectful, and when I decided to go another route after doing some more homework and try someone else's converter I get flamed , mocked and insulted by you for trying to share that there are others out there that have gone further than PTC and make a damn good converter at a damn good price I might add.

I have the utmost respect for that man and his efforts to try and make the best damn product while working with me one on one taking the time to listen to what I wanted and the goals I set forth.

I used to respect you and thought you had my best interests in mind when I first inquired about a converter, but all that is lost since you would rather belittle me rather than maybe learn something that has escaped the makers of the PTC so far.



Why any one would go NLU on a street car even if it's in the tens or slower is beyond me considering that you can have your cake and eat it to with what's available now in LU technology.

RZ

Sorry you take it that way. You come on here posting about how great something is and all I ask for is proof. Competition is always a good thing and it don't bother me at all. I know a line of bs when i see it and I'm not faulting you for falling for it. You have yet to provide proof or answer any questions when I try to help you make your case. You have said that nothing compares to this custom made billet lock up. Yet we have not seen any data supporting your claims.

So far you have claimed its better than some PTC converter but I still don't know if your comparing it to a 9.5 non lock or the 10". Which one are you comparing it to?

What makes it better? Can it stall 3400 rpm and spool a 76mm while running 10.20 shifting at the usual 5500-5800 rpm with less than 5% slip and still retain lock up for street driving?

You also claim that it will support 1500hp in a lock up. So your claiming a single disc converter can lock up and hold 1500hp? Yes or no?

You claim it's custom built. What makes a converter custom?

What is the difference in a billet converter vs a non billet and why does billet perform better. I really want to hear this answer because nothing internal is billet in a billet converter.

I'm actually trying to have a grown up conversation but you will not or can't answer any of the questions that can help you prove your case. No one here is just gonna take these claims as gospel without some proof.


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[Pronto]

Guess the other question is "who" makes this magic converter. If it's so great why isn't he promoting it?

 

[longball]

[quote=""Guess the other question is "who" makes this magic converter"/quote]

The suspense is killing me..........I wanna get in on the ground floor! Before everyone has one. LOL

 

[Grumpy]

To be fair Grump, hr has TH400 not a 200. Im sure it would be much lower in O/D. Even with a l/u it would be high due to the gears.

[quote="ZNix, post: 3242605,


You don't say we will always have an OD trans . For the gazillionth time we DRIVE the hell out of our cars. Oh when ya get the new NLU converter Ill take your old POS 9/11 !!!! We all know they are trash from the get go !!

 

[ZNix]

[quote="ZNix, post: 3242605,


You don't say we will always have an OD trans . For the gazillionth time we DRIVE the hell out of our cars. Oh when ya get the new NLU converter Ill take your old POS 9/11 !!!! We all know they are trash from the get go !!

I've actually been thinking about it getting re-stalled so I can have good spool up with the new p-trim wheel . Any recommendations (stall and shop to do it) I wouldn't mind trying a N/L though.

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[TURBOPOWERED68]

You don't say we will always have an OD trans . For the gazillionth time we DRIVE the hell out of our cars. Oh when ya get the new NLU converter Ill take your old POS 9/11 !!!! We all know they are trash from the get go !!

Do you think that your car would gain nothing going with a high end NLU?
You did your 9 something pass years ago correct? For how many years were you playing with T-Buicks before that?

 

[tford]

Wow! I really started some sheeit here. Car is mostly street. I was referring to if the trans is cheaper to rebuild using a nonlock converter. I was assuming non lock = less parts to replace/upgrade. I also didn't want to have to deal with the setup not being perfect and have to pull converter again to tweak. Labor is not free for me.

 

[Grumpy]

Do you think that you car would gain nothing going with a high end NLU?
You did your 9 something pass years ago correct? For how many years were you playing with T-Buicks before that?

Ill let ya know when we try it at the drags. We have Dustys(BIG $$$$ NLU)and a 9/11. The 9/11 has been there an done it. LOCKED up at the drags. Still the same converter we have had in there since 2007 !!! We did put his converter in for one summer. Worked very nice BUT it didn't like our New England long hills. Never make it to the track with it. We put the LU back in this past winter. Back to back I will go for a LU. Street driving at it's best as far as we r concerned. So when the time comes we will do a back to back with them.
....Ya been into Buicks since 1986. Whats your point ??? Had an Art Carr NLU an no way could I live with it. Converters are a big deal to a set up BUT ya need more that just that. Melissa's old 9 sec set up was a nothing engine. YES still have it on an engine stand all fresh an ready to go back in the Mazda.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Ill let ya know when we try it at the drags. We have Dustys(BIG $$$$ NLU)and a 9/11. The 9/11 has been there an done it. LOCKED up at the drags. Still the same converter we have had in there since 2007 !!! We did put his converter in for one summer. Worked very nice BUT it didn't like our New England long hills. Never make it to the track with it. We put the LU back in this past winter. Back to back I will go for a LU. Street driving at it's best as far as we r concerned. So when the time comes we will do a back to back with them.
....Ya been into Buicks since 1986. Whats your point ??? Had an Art Carr NLU an no way could I live with it. Converters are a big deal to a set up BUT ya need more that just that. Melissa's old 9 sec set up was a nothing engine. YES still have it on an engine stand all fresh an ready to go back in the Mazda.

You know my point.



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[pacecarta]

You know my point.



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next youll be asking how old Dan is and can he still chew his food

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

next youll be asking how old Dan is and can he still chew his food

just by the way he is always flapping his gums its easy to see that he has his food chewing out sourced.


NO Disrespect Dan i figured i might as well put some of your own lines to work.

Paul, He has a few years on you so its acceptable for him to be grumpy whats your excuse?? Well besides dumb fcks like me.

Back to NLUs
BTW i went with a LU because of Grumpy's posts

 

[David Husek]

........ if the trans is cheaper to rebuild using a nonlock converter. I was assuming non lock = less parts to replace/upgrade. I also didn't want to have to deal with the setup not being perfect and have to pull converter again to tweak. Labor is not free for me.

A rebuild lock-up or non-lock is the same price usually. Only difference is more parts for non-lock, have to install a non-lock valve in the pump. I change my calibration some when switching to a non-lock-up, but nothing that costs extra. There could be an extra cost if you are using a PTC 9.5 non lock or similar converter and a BR valve body trans, you will need to get a heavy weight governor valve body and governor combo to bring the shifts back up as the PTC 9.5 non lock and similar converters causes full throttle shifts around 4500. The BR is a light weight governor valve body and you cannot remove anymore weight from the governor without shift problems. Changing the valve body and governor will let you fine tune your shift point; I set the governor for stock shift points of 5000-5200. It shifts early simply because the converters are efficient (very little slip). Well worth the upgrade. This info is for all efficient lock-up and non-lock-up converters. This upgrade is not needed for the converters that have been run for years like the Pat's 3200 you are using which work well in many applications.

There is much controversy on converters. There is new technology available in the lock-up world that should satisfy those who want to retain lock-up for driving, but be efficient at the track at the same time. They all work well, lock-up or non lockup if properly matched. It all depends on what you do with your car. But in the end, it's your decision. No two cars are the same. I recommend to contact one of us vendors for information on what will work for your combination....

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Nice post David

It is possible to get great efficiency in a lock-up converter while running unlocked. It comes down to the power and weight of the car vs the rpm it's shifting at. The issue with the Buick V6 has always been the power the engine makes, the heavy car and the low shift rpm. All of these when combined require a converter that can stall fairly high like 3000 rpm but couple below 6,000 rpm.

You can take a 3000 stall lock up converter, put it in a car that runs 11.50 and shift it at 5800 rpm and the efficiency will be great. Now take that same car and try to run 10.50 and all of a sudden the slip jumps up over what people are now looking for. Then shift this same car at 6500 rpm and slip is back to where it needs to be. More power places more load on the converter. More load on the conveter raises it's stall speed and therefore the closer the stall speed gets to the shift rpm, the less efficient the converter can be. The reason the 9.5 non lock does so well is it's ability to maintain efficiency despite where it stalls at 0 boost. A lock up converter can work well as long as the combo of the turbo and engine rpm work well together. A stock ci motor with a 6262 shifting at 5600-5800 and running mid 11's can work well with a lock up that stalls 2800 or so. Put a 67mm on it and try to run 10.50 and then the non lock will offer more power to the tires due to being able to maintain great efficiency.

A 9x11 is a good converter and can maintain efficiency because of it's 11" back half. They don't stall very high.....like 2400-2600 in most cases.

 

[Grumpy]

You know my point.



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NO I don't.. Enlighten me

 

[20psiofevil]

Nice post David

It is possible to get great efficiency in a lock-up converter while running unlocked. It comes down to the power and weight of the car vs the rpm it's shifting at. The issue with the Buick V6 has always been the power the engine makes, the heavy car and the low shift rpm. All of these when combined require a converter that can stall fairly high like 3000 rpm but couple below 6,000 rpm.

You can take a 3000 stall lock up converter, put it in a car that runs 11.50 and shift it at 5800 rpm and the efficiency will be great. Now take that same car and try to run 10.50 and all of a sudden the slip jumps up over what people are now looking for. Then shift this same car at 6500 rpm and slip is back to where it needs to be. More power places more load on the converter. More load on the conveter raises it's stall speed and therefore the closer the stall speed gets to the shift rpm, the less efficient the converter can be. The reason the 9.5 non lock does so well is it's ability to maintain efficiency despite where it stalls at 0 boost. A lock up converter can work well as long as the combo of the turbo and engine rpm work well together. A stock ci motor with a 6262 shifting at 5600-5800 and running mid 11's can work well with a lock up that stalls 2800 or so. Put a 67mm on it and try to run 10.50 and then the non lock will offer more power to the tires due to being able to maintain great efficiency.

A 9x11 is a good converter and can maintain efficiency because of it's 11" back half. They don't stall very high.....like 2400-2600 in most cases.

Very informative post.

You said your custom steel stator allows you to get the 9.5's to a higher brake stall, I know stall speed is based on weight and tq, but take a common setup like a 6262 with a mild cam making mid 500 tq with one of your 3000rpm nl's that has a foot brake stall of 3000rpm, what would a setup like this stall on a trans brake? Also what is the process or formula used among converter builders to determine true stall speed off a trans brake? Is true stall off the brake rated for 250ftlbs and every 100ftlbs over 250 raisies true stall up 200 rpm?

 

[Grumpy]

next youll be asking how old Dan is and can he still chew his food

hey I have a toof to eat wit. then I give it back to da dog