NON LOCK CONVERTER DRIVEABILITY?

[robzombie]

Dusty Comment:
So your saying a single disc 9.5 Lu converter can hold 1500 hp while locked? Let us hear the names of those who have done this. Holding 1500 hp unlocked is possible for a single disc, locked is another story.

His response:
We do it all the time in the Diesel Market. They utilize lock up under full spool at maximum torque in the one two shift and then stay locked up for the rest of the ride. I have built converters for trucks that tow 50 Ft. race trailers across the country then unhook from the trailer and run 10.5 in the quarter with the air conditioning running. It is interesting that under this application Precision Industries Recommends the Single Disc Billet rather than a multi plate.

Dusty Comment:
Do you know what makes a converter billet and what it's advantage is?

His response:
Speaking to the issue of a quality full billet converter with a billet lock up damper plate the differences are huge with respect to lock up surface area, strength, both cover and clutch, weight, and balance. Not to mention flow rate due to balance and the recovery time to redirect. However, there are some cheap manufactures out there posturing billet covers with factory lock up dampers wherein the only difference would be appearance.

 

[robzombie]

Dusty Comment:
I want the part number off the converter he "improved on" copied or whatever. There is a 10" NLU from PTC that measures 9.5 that costs 475. I do not call it a 9.5 to eliminate confusion but if a "converter guy" looked at it he'd call it a 9.5 as its the same core as the Vigilante, yank etc...if he improved on it then you can still get my part number off the converter.

Response:

To set the record straight your converter was not copied or improved upon. I was contracted to refresh this unit for resale and allowed to take a peek at what makes this converter outperform the other up to this date. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there with respect to a 9.5 converter, #0 impeller and 17 blade stator. I personally built two 245mm units that missed the mark (highly unusual for me), due to the fact that to date I have not built for Buick turbo applications. Rob should be corrected here, as my second recommendation would of hit the mark on his car but for the fact that he wanted his exactly the same as one I did for the original owner of this converter. The converter that I was sent was a Nissan Core with a custom manufactured stator. This unit although good, missed the mark for this particular owner and his driving habits. Does not operate at optimum with a trans brake. However, I will agree with others in this forum that use this piece that it was the best available at the time and if you helped design it then you did an okay job. Bottom line………..to this date it was the best performer according to the logs and experience of the purchasers.

 

[robzombie]

Dusty Comment:

So from what I gather he took a PTC which was most likely to tight for the combo, loosened so it was more optimal for the combo and it ran faster. Yea that's ground breaking stuff that's never been done before. We probably ship 10 of those restalled converters from other manufacturers daily. With data from a running car things can often be improved on.

His Response: This unit came in and went out refreshed exactly as originally built right down to the bearing clearance. I have no interest in using this core as there are many more viable cores to work with. As far as the breaking ground stuff you should take a look at the stator you developed…………Kone was doing that 15 years ago.

The request for me under contract from a client was to develop a converter that would out perform, couple as well or better, and generate less heat due to efficiency and flow rate. It might interest you to know that since three other manufactures have asked for the same advice.

Piece of cake: logs to follow in three classes. Billet Lockup, High Flow 9 inch drag configuration, and street/strip 9 ½ platform both bearing and non lockup. And you don’t have to cut the shaft off these new players converters leaving the consumer the option of going back to lock up in the future; imagine that.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Rob. The reason I asked YOU the questions was because I could tell you were simply trying to restate what you were told by your guy. Your were putting it out there as if you had a better converter yet you could not answer the 1st question as to why it was better. I'm glad you are happy with it, that's really all that matters. But if you don't understand what makes a converter more suitable for a Buick application vs any other then it's hard to make your case. You could have bought a Billet lock-up from Yank, Pro-torque, Edge, Circle-D, Pats, or Vigilante and not known a bit of difference. Without testing your converter head to head then you can't say yours is better. A Buick converter has special needs. It has to spool the turbo and couple the power. You can have 4% slip yet not spool the turbo or spool easily and have 14% slip. Only when comparing head to head can you say one is better than the other.

This is a Buick site where the owners are looking for Buick applicable products. You stated there were single disc converters holding 1500 hp. The reason I specifically called that out was because I know it isn't true for a small 9.5 clutch to hold that kind of power. I wouldn't say you lied to the members here but they certainly didn;t get the full story. A diesel application uses a 12" or 13" converter so it's ability to hold that kind of power doesn't belong in the same thread as anything related to a 9.5 Buick converter. Guys on this site have used a 9x11 which has an 11" clutch and proved it will take 9 second abuse a long time ago.

In reality all you can claim is your single disc may be able to handle WOT lock better compared to other single disc. Guys have locked other Billet single disc converters like the Pats and Pro-torque for many passes but one thing is certain. It will fail at some point. A 9.5 is limited in clutch surface area whether it's billet or not. The ONLY way to get more surface area for better lock up durability is a larger clutch like the 9x11 or by adding more clutches.

I never claimed to invent the converter or anything inside of it. What I did was put the pieces together for the Buick community with it's specific needs. It's been proven that the 500rpm slip difference from lock up to non lock is not true with my converters. 5% slip at cruise and WOT on 10 second and faster cars from a converter that can spool a large turbo on a 231ci engine. It's been posted here by customers for years. 5% slip at 2200 rpm is 110 rpm.....many have reported 50rpm from the lock-up they removed to the non lock they replaced it with. To get a 500 rpm difference you'd have to be ascending an incline.

I got nothing to hide here but will chime in to set the record straight on false information.

 

[Bigjsn250]

Dusty, Bison why even waste time responding to this guy? Look back through his post, nothing of value. He refuses to post any data or even the name of the person. Just ignore this troll and he will go away like all the others eventually do. If there was a better converter people would be buying it, there's not, end of story.

 

[robzombie]

Dusty, Bison why even waste time responding to this guy? Look back through his post, nothing of value. He refuses to post any data or even the name of the person. Just ignore this troll and he will go away like all the others eventually do. If there was a better converter people would be buying it, there's not, end of story.

I'm not a troll, if I ignore you will you go away.

Data and testimonies from others will be posted in the near future.

 

[we4Mateo]

How near?

 

[TheGovernment]

I've got a non-lock 2800 in my car now and it's great. I spent quite a bit if time trying to decide whether to get LU or NLU and the decision was made to go non-locking by info on here and my tranny guy (built me a kickass stage 2). I've had both now and prefer the Non-lock for driving around the city (which is what the car is doing 90% of the time)

 

[tford]

So to get back on topic, the main reason to switch to non lockup is :
1. less variables in tuning
2. reliability
3. less slippage
4. better 1/4 mile times?
Am I on the right track? So if I have the funds to switch when getting trans rebuilt, I should. Sounds like it will save me headaches later.