Fastest v6
- Thread starter casper
- Start date
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Sometimes it is a little like a religious debate, you can't convince some who believes in their heart something else.
Except in this case we can back up our opinion with cold hard facts.
So true...
You're a more renowned Reverend than I am
, so it's likely that no one will say otherwise & believe even by faith :biggrin:.
You're a more renowned Reverend than I am
, so it's likely that no one will say otherwise & believe even by faith :biggrin:.- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Isnt there a guy on here that has run like a 4.12 1/8th in a rail? I know its not a Buick car but I think its a stage 2 Buick motor and a 4.12 should be around a 6.30 in the 1/4.
Apples to Oranges, the Toyota Motor in a rail would be in the 5s.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
You know how much I love these cars Shane.
However I am not oblivious to the performance of other makes and models.
Tim Lynch has gone 6.6 @ 220 plus on W's at over 3100Lbs. (B4ack Half)
The closet Buick/Olds door slammer is Duttweiler's 6.8 @ 204 in a very light
car (under 2500lbs) and 33X17 tires.
It is just to easy to build a 2000 plus HP SBC or SBF the will run a full season.
Some of these guys are pushing 2400 on gas!
The Toyota motors are making more than 1800 as of when I talked to Kenny a couple years ago.
Heck the Corporate GM DOHC at 3.5 liters has made over 1700 with only a couple years development.
The turbo regal is my personal favorite car but if I am going to be subjective it is not the best in every category.
For those that don't believe in the Toyota I6 running 6.4's~~
http://dragracingonline.com/agent1320/2005/images/scion.wmv
(Right Click, Save As)
It's interesting to note however that the Godfather of the Buick V6, Mr. Kenny Duttweiler, was the person involved with helping Titan with their engine program to get to this point.
I love the Buick V6 as well but as John said it's a cold hard fact that the Toyota is faster.
One thing I will say though in defense of the Buick V6 is that NOBODY has ever really built an all-out Buick V6 that runs on Methanol like the Toyota!!!! As we all know there is more power to be made on Methanol than Gasoline and all of the High HP Buick V6 motors were always on Gasoline so what if.............. :biggrin: :wink:
http://dragracingonline.com/agent1320/2005/images/scion.wmv
(Right Click, Save As)
It's interesting to note however that the Godfather of the Buick V6, Mr. Kenny Duttweiler, was the person involved with helping Titan with their engine program to get to this point.
I love the Buick V6 as well but as John said it's a cold hard fact that the Toyota is faster.
One thing I will say though in defense of the Buick V6 is that NOBODY has ever really built an all-out Buick V6 that runs on Methanol like the Toyota!!!! As we all know there is more power to be made on Methanol than Gasoline and all of the High HP Buick V6 motors were always on Gasoline so what if.............. :biggrin: :wink:
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
For those that don't believe in the Toyota I6 running 6.4's~~
http://dragracingonline.com/agent1320/2005/images/scion.wmv
(Right Click, Save As)
It's interesting to note however that the Godfather of the Buick V6, Mr. Kenny Duttweiler, was the person involved with helping Titan with their engine program to get to this point.
I love the Buick V6 as well but as John said it's a cold hard fact that the Toyota is faster.
One thing I will say though in defense of the Buick V6 is that NOBODY has ever really built an all-out Buick V6 that runs on Methanol like the Toyota!!!! As we all know there is more power to be made on Methanol than Gasoline and all of the High HP Buick V6 motors were always on Gasoline so what if.............. :biggrin: :wink:
Steve,
The highest Dyno Tested HP numbers I have ever heard for a Stage II Motor is about 1600HP.
More common numbers are in the 1400-1500HP range.
If you added Methanol I would be you could get it in the 1800HP Range.
That would be totally awesome and I would love to see it, however I am not sure anyone will put the time and effort into that combination, the upside is just not big enough. As great as the Stage II Heads are the DOHC Technology is just better.
If anyone wants to prove me wrong I have a Top Self Stage II Motor that I will gladly sell them to try...
PS: I hope Mom is doing ok!
John,
There's definitely no doubting the DOHC technology in both the Toyota I6 and GM's newer corporate V6 is superior. I would still like to see somebody try it with the Buick V6, but I can undertstand there is little to be gained other than maybe bragging rights.
Think if I ever hit the Lotto for like 50 Mill I would have Mr. Duttweiler build me such a powerplant and then I would have Skinny Kid build me the chassis and then we would finally see just how far the Buick V6 could go.. It's nice to dream! LOL:biggrin:
Mom's doing fine, I will have to send you a few new pics of my little niece from Xmas:smile:
I think the Buick guys are doing a good job with these old pushrod engines. There is no question that newer DOHC and big V-8's are the way to go with huge horsepower. The Buick will make all the power I need or want.
Maybe If TA will get around to producing some Stage II style heads maybe the figures could go up a little more on gas.
Maybe If TA will get around to producing some Stage II style heads maybe the figures could go up a little more on gas.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
I wasn't arguing with you guys. I am just into Buicks! Jays head guy does alot of head work on these fast toyota's. Maybe something will trickle over
Shane,
I think Todd Mckenzie does all off Duttweiler's Stuff/Titan's stuff.
I know did the head on Chris's Supra.
Jay can you share some information with Steve and I?
The basic design of the buick v-6 block is the limiting factor, not the head design. There is simply not enough room in the engine to keep the parts from contacting each other when huge cam/stroke combos are used. A taller deck, raised cam location block with more center to center distance is needed. Buick has nothing to prove imo. The tech is 25 years old now and they were light years ahead of all the other manufacturers as far as fuel injected, turbocharged, gasoline engines. Buddy Ingersoll got screwed because he was kicking everyones ass so bad. Pro stock is a joke without turbocharging (as he proved quite well) and wont have any real records till they let turbochargers run away with all the records.
Not sure if it's true, but a local racer has his motors built by a place called Autoshop in Florida. I Remember him saying something about them building Titan's motors
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Not sure if it's true, but a local racer has his motors built by a place called Autoshop in Florida. I Remember him saying something about them building Titan's motors
Duttweiler engineered and built their motors since at least 2005.
I don't know about this year.
It is possible that the shop in FL builds the motors Titan Sells not Races.
This picture I took of the Copper Titan Car in Vegas of 05.
I have also spoken to the Duttweilers in the past about this program.
"this was a couple years ago."
Attachments
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Taken from the Titan web site:
Utilizing a 2jz-gte motor commonly out of a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo the team is quite at home with this powerplant. Come out and visit us in 2004 at the race and stop by and feel feel to grab a keychain and chat with one of the team members.
Sponsors include: Aeromotive, Aeroquip, ARP,Adell Wiggins, ATI Super Damper, B&M, BFGoodrich, Borla Headers, Casite, Cometic, Crower, Dunlop Tires, Duttweiler Performance, Ferrea, Fidanza, Fluidyne, G-Force Transmissions, Greddy, GRP, G-Sport, Hotchkis, HPC, JE Pistons, K&N, Koni, Motec, Nitrous Express, PPG, Precision Turbo, PST, RC Engineering, RJ Race Cars, RPS, Sealed Power, Sparco, Strange Engineering, TRD, VP Race Fuels, Weld, Wilson Manifolds and the awesome Titan Crew.
Utilizing a 2jz-gte motor commonly out of a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo the team is quite at home with this powerplant. Come out and visit us in 2004 at the race and stop by and feel feel to grab a keychain and chat with one of the team members.
Sponsors include: Aeromotive, Aeroquip, ARP,Adell Wiggins, ATI Super Damper, B&M, BFGoodrich, Borla Headers, Casite, Cometic, Crower, Dunlop Tires, Duttweiler Performance, Ferrea, Fidanza, Fluidyne, G-Force Transmissions, Greddy, GRP, G-Sport, Hotchkis, HPC, JE Pistons, K&N, Koni, Motec, Nitrous Express, PPG, Precision Turbo, PST, RC Engineering, RJ Race Cars, RPS, Sealed Power, Sparco, Strange Engineering, TRD, VP Race Fuels, Weld, Wilson Manifolds and the awesome Titan Crew.
I wish I never would have came across this thread as I found it a little depressing. Ok so maybe the supra motor can squeeze by our motor in terms of HP but what about torque? Also isnt the new TA block supposed to be able to support like 2k HP with proper heads??? Not to play the "what if" game, but what if Buick would have kept going with Ingersol's car? It ran like an 7.02 in 1985 with mechanical fuel injection. Do you honestly think they would have not achieved 6.40s eventually? I think its all about money and whos backing the car. Just my 2 cents.
BUICK totally scared the living HELL out of Motorsports (NASCAR, NHRA, IHRA, CART). Ingersoll had access to Bernard Santavy and other Buick Engineers If he had not have beeb blacked balled, Buick would have OWNED Motorsports.... He raced the idol, Bob Glidden and scared the living SH1T out of him
. He burned a coil wire and still ran low 7's . Glidden and others figured it would take 2 years to get their turbo programs up .GM was feeling the HEAT from Chevy. Buick is not supposed to be dominate. In NASCAR Busch Series, Buicks were dominate with their NA Stage V6 motors. Santavy and his Engineers were on the verge of dominating IMSA with technology learned from working with Ingersoll. Buick was already dominating CART and the Indy 500.
King Buddy opened a can of worms! V6 power was starting a revolution. Buck had YEARS of experience. Chevy's 4.3 was a dog. Even in the Syclone. Could you imagine a Buick engine in a Syclone? Chevy would have sold out. Unlike Pontiac, Chevy said that either GM reign in Buick or else.
We all know what happened!
