UNDER-PRESSURE
..... Member .....
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2006
It sounds like everything is working out.
Could you post some pictures & details here of the monster you have created? It looks like it's going to be a pretty serious car!!
SR7 Performance - anyone here dealt with them?
- Thread starter SinistrV6
- Start date
It sounds like everything is working out.
Could you post some pictures & details here of the monster you have created? It looks like it's going to be a pretty serious car!!FASTFATBOY
Member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
It sounds like everything is working out.
Well, pretty serious on my WALLET LMAO.
Here are the "high" points.
94 Z28
Six Speed to Auto conversion
9 inch rear, narrowed 6 inches
4.11 gear, Detroit locker
Car is mini-tubbed
325/50 drag radials
15x10, 15x4 Convo Pro's
Tube front k member
Hal front coilovers
Koni DA/s in the rear
Globa West frame connectors
Wolfe Racecraft 6 point Chrome moly roll bar
Functional "ram air" hood
Chrome moly lower control arms with heim ends(offset)
Spohn tubular torque arm with heim ends
Aluminum panhard bar with heim ends
LT1, 383 inches
RHS 235 heads converted to work on a LT1, Flow 319@.650 on a 4.060 bore
12.77 to 1 compression
Comp Cams 254/254@.050, 670 lift, 108 LSA
DRE Shaft rockers
Edelbrock Super Victor intake, converted to EFI, sheetmetal elbow
AS&M 1300 cfm Monoblade throttlebody
42lb SVO injectors
1 7/8 Hedman headers, 3.5 inch Y pipe, 4 inch Mufflex ex with Magnaflow muff
Full Aeromotive fuel system,A1000 pump, #10 running up front.
PICS! Hope yall like it!
David
FASTFATBOY
Member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
Money order got to Scott today, trans did not ship. I will set up with the freight company to get it picked up Monday. I was told it would ship today, per Scott. Per Scott the money order got there too late.
I tried to call Scott back at 4:20 HIS time, no answer on either numbers, called 3 times, I need to confirm he will be there Monday morning at 8 AM for the pickup. Scott call me if you read this.
David
I tried to call Scott back at 4:20 HIS time, no answer on either numbers, called 3 times, I need to confirm he will be there Monday morning at 8 AM for the pickup. Scott call me if you read this.
David
UNDER-PRESSURE
..... Member .....
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2006
I'm very interested how this turns out. Hopefully good?
FASTFATBOY
Member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
You didn't have any problem with it when this started, why now?
BTW I checked UPS tracking, he signed for the money order at 3:41 his time.
David
FAST i love the engine and chassis combination.based on the power that it should make the 4l60e is not a good candidate for a transmission.there is way too much ratio in the trans for that motor,especially with a 4:11 axle ratio.the 700r4 4l60e units use only the front planet in first gear verses the 2004r 400 and 350 which use front and rear planets together in 1st gear.This combined with that final drive ratio and the engines rpm capabilities produces internal component rotatianal speeds beyond the capabilities of the original engineered purpose.this is not somewhere where we can say "put in more clutches or higher line pressures" and itll be ok.now we shift to 2nd.the band grounds the rear sun gear to the transmission case and we are overdriving the front planet .2 planets at work now instead of 1 in the 2004r ,350,400 types.still very high rpm in the front planet.third gear ratio change:very efficient in terms of the weight to be driven by the high gear clutch pack however we are still dealing with a clutch pack of limited capacity as well as a long fluid path and inherent circuit pressure balance problems associated with the design of the valve body .fourth:we now overdrive the locked front planet and grounded elements causing insane rpms at the front sun gear races and sprag.this is not intended to piss anyone off only to state how important ratios are for given applications.i love the 700r4 4l60e but it has to be used with numerically low final drives and lower rpm engines for longevity and to not need to be shifted 40 feet down the track because you are on the rev limiter.
FASTFATBOY
Member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
FAST i love the engine and chassis combination.based on the power that it should make the 4l60e is not a good candidate for a transmission.there is way too much ratio in the trans for that motor,especially with a 4:11 axle ratio.the 700r4 4l60e units use only the front planet in first gear verses the 2004r 400 and 350 which use front and rear planets together in 1st gear.This combined with that final drive ratio and the engines rpm capabilities produces internal component rotatianal speeds beyond the capabilities of the original engineered purpose.this is not somewhere where we can say "put in more clutches or higher line pressures" and itll be ok.now we shift to 2nd.the band grounds the rear sun gear to the transmission case and we are overdriving the front planet .2 planets at work now instead of 1 in the 2004r ,350,400 types.still very high rpm in the front planet.third gear ratio change:very efficient in terms of the weight to be driven by the high gear clutch pack however we are still dealing with a clutch pack of limited capacity as well as a long fluid path and inherent circuit pressure balance problems associated with the design of the valve body .fourth:we now overdrive the locked front planet and grounded elements causing insane rpms at the front sun gear races and sprag.this is not intended to piss anyone off only to state how important ratios are for given applications.i love the 700r4 4l60e but it has to be used with numerically low final drives and lower rpm engines for longevity and to not need to be shifted 40 feet down the track because you are on the rev limiter.
Chris, thanks for the input here, I have a 4.11 gear with a 28 inch tall tire. That knocks it down in the neighborhood of a 3.73 with a 26 inch tall tire.
This car will be shifted at 7000.
Scott assures me, as you see in posts above, that my car will be a walk in the park for "his" transmission. I have been clear with him that his work WILL be tested. 75% of his customers will not test his work like I will. This car WILL be ran at the track and on the street. Again, according to Scott, no problem for his trans. It HAS a one year warranty, he also stated I could spray this car....we will see when I get it back.
CPT or Cahall Performance Transmission in Delaware has 4L60E's running in the 9's in 3300lb+ Camaros and Firebirds
He is a sponsor on CamaroZ28.com, Frank is an AWESOME guy, he also has a warranty on his trans, no matter what you throw at it.
Again, thanks for the input.
David
I can understand posting something online to spur action, but I don't see a play by play being necessary.
If you got the wheels turning, great, and coming back later to post the final outcome is also great, as I'm sure any interested would like to know one way or another.
It just seems redundant.
jake i agree with you,and im sure you agree with me about:Originally Posted by chris718
FAST i love the engine and chassis combination.based on the power that it should make the 4l60e is not a good candidate for a transmission.there is way too much ratio in the trans for that motor,especially with a 4:11 axle ratio.the 700r4 4l60e units use only the front planet in first gear verses the 2004r 400 and 350 which use front and rear planets together in 1st gear.This combined with that final drive ratio and the engines rpm capabilities produces internal component rotatianal speeds beyond the capabilities of the original engineered purpose.this is not somewhere where we can say "put in more clutches or higher line pressures" and itll be ok.now we shift to 2nd.the band grounds the rear sun gear to the transmission case and we are overdriving the front planet .2 planets at work now instead of 1 in the 2004r ,350,400 types.still very high rpm in the front planet.third gear ratio change:very efficient in terms of the weight to be driven by the high gear clutch pack however we are still dealing with a clutch pack of limited capacity as well as a long fluid path and inherent circuit pressure balance problems associated with the design of the valve body .fourth:we now overdrive the locked front planet and grounded elements causing insane rpms at the front sun gear races and sprag.this is not intended to piss anyone off only to state how important ratios are for given applications.i love the 700r4 4l60e but it has to be used with numerically low final drives and lower rpm engines for longevity and to not need to be shifted 40 feet down the track because you are on the rev limiter. i just dont see these things living long in the mid tens without some "new" technology im not aware of
FAST i love the engine and chassis combination.based on the power that it should make the 4l60e is not a good candidate for a transmission.there is way too much ratio in the trans for that motor,especially with a 4:11 axle ratio.the 700r4 4l60e units use only the front planet in first gear verses the 2004r 400 and 350 which use front and rear planets together in 1st gear.This combined with that final drive ratio and the engines rpm capabilities produces internal component rotatianal speeds beyond the capabilities of the original engineered purpose.this is not somewhere where we can say "put in more clutches or higher line pressures" and itll be ok.now we shift to 2nd.the band grounds the rear sun gear to the transmission case and we are overdriving the front planet .2 planets at work now instead of 1 in the 2004r ,350,400 types.still very high rpm in the front planet.third gear ratio change:very efficient in terms of the weight to be driven by the high gear clutch pack however we are still dealing with a clutch pack of limited capacity as well as a long fluid path and inherent circuit pressure balance problems associated with the design of the valve body .fourth:we now overdrive the locked front planet and grounded elements causing insane rpms at the front sun gear races and sprag.this is not intended to piss anyone off only to state how important ratios are for given applications.i love the 700r4 4l60e but it has to be used with numerically low final drives and lower rpm engines for longevity and to not need to be shifted 40 feet down the track because you are on the rev limiter. i just dont see these things living long in the mid tens without some "new" technology im not aware of
UNDER-PRESSURE
..... Member .....
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2006
What is it that SR7 performance & Cahall Performance Transmissions are doing that the other transmission shops can't? Here is a link to CPT transmisssion's 700 page. It Doesn't look like there's any exotic parts being used?
CPT - Cahall Performance Transmissions: Transmission pricing - 4l60e/700r4
CPT - Cahall Performance Transmissions: Transmission pricing - 4l60e/700r4
Im all ears.id love to hear from them.Maybe there are some parts ive not seen neither heard of yet.Im well aware of tuning the pcm but also know the high line introduced causes parts breakage ,so what are the answers?Most of these companies are not showing anything other than regular run of the mill parts and if you read the claims on my 4l60e page it is based on what has lived.ive had high nine second cars run my 4l60e but not get more than 30 runs in the 9s off the 3/4 clutch pack if they were lucky.why doesnt someone invite frank here for an explantion of how he gets them to live?no im not looking to stir the bean pot just want to hear the build up.
I can't directly speak for SR7, but I can tell you that it's just about throwing a bunch of parts in a transmission. We have a combination for both the 700 and 4L60E that makes them hold up to more abuse than ANYBODY elses. The "combination" also consists of the knowledge of what these transmissions need to survive in mid 9 second cars.
Frank
CPT
UNDER-PRESSURE
..... Member .....
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2006
well we all share information around here freely so what is your combination of parts and or calibration?if you do some searches around here youll probably learn many things about the principles of operation of the trans.i think myself and john kilgore and a few others are probably the limited few around here that really understand how the trans works mechanically.that is not meant as an insult just a reality check for those who think they know too much.my questions for you would be based on the the clamping force in psi numbers generated by the given diameter of the 3/4 clutch piston and the clutch apply feed pressure at wot how ls it possible to get 100 passes in the 9s on the stock or z pack with calibrations that wont break the output shaft or pop the snap ring out of its groove in the drum by cracking? what is the burst point in psi of the snap ring groove based on piston diameter and line pressure at wot numbers?when plugging the checkball capsule in the drum why does the .040 bleed hole in the drum mod cause a delayed 3/2 or 4/2 kickdown on 2001 and up valve bodies when the changes didnt involvethe 3/2 casting but a spring height change?
COME ON BACK FRANK.enlighten us .at 1400 dollars for a build theres gotta be a lot of tricks.we want to hear some of them as well as get some answers to my questions.why does a 4l60e pragrammed to shift at 6800 rpms wot shift at 7200 hot or when power output goes up?why is the dump circuit for the 3rd port lower than the feed when leaving the circuit half full when not used provide a faster application of the clutch pack when 3rd gear is selected?there are some sharp pencils in this forum,welcome aboard "4l60e specialist".
My biggest concern with the 700/4L60E is the input drum/shaft and the 3-4 clutches.
First, there are all types of different clutch pack configs out there and each builder has their own preferred method.
Z-Pak which is apparently getting a re-design.
Blue Plates
Alto Power Pack (which almost everyone agrees the steels are too thin).
7-9 clutch Hi-Energy setups, some builder like it with Kolenes.
No matter what we use for friction material, we are applying it with sheetmetal "fingers". So apply pressure is limited by that.
Next IF the 3-4s will hold up, the input drum/shaft will fail. We all know about the torque drive junk and the sleeved drum helps but is truly just a band aid.
If the aluminum/steel input shaft interface lives, the whole drum can fail.
I know Dana at Pro-Built believes this is caused by improperly pressing the sleeve on.
Then the shaft will fail, even, if hardened, at oil passages.
I occasionally speak/email with Tony at Hughes, and they have done some testing on these (possibly for GM), and he says the best scenario so far has been cryro treating NEW parts. At $300 for a new drum/shaft from GM, then cryro costs, that adds significant cost to the build and as we all know, the customer balks.
Then the gear ratios are too far off for most drag cars.
Chris, you should make a few more of the 2.66 gearsets...
The only real FIX I can see would be change the gear ratio, and completely design the input drum/shaft to use a larger surface area 3-4 clutch/ larger apply area, and get rid of the finger apply design. This would be a major redesign, probably to the point of needing case mods/redesign.
I know some guys are having limited success in the 9s or 10s but I feel that if you are truthful with a customer you would recommend a 4L80E if OD is a necessity.
I'm also curious to hear Frank's thoughts on the subject.
First, there are all types of different clutch pack configs out there and each builder has their own preferred method.
Z-Pak which is apparently getting a re-design.
Blue Plates
Alto Power Pack (which almost everyone agrees the steels are too thin).
7-9 clutch Hi-Energy setups, some builder like it with Kolenes.
No matter what we use for friction material, we are applying it with sheetmetal "fingers". So apply pressure is limited by that.
Next IF the 3-4s will hold up, the input drum/shaft will fail. We all know about the torque drive junk and the sleeved drum helps but is truly just a band aid.
If the aluminum/steel input shaft interface lives, the whole drum can fail.
I know Dana at Pro-Built believes this is caused by improperly pressing the sleeve on.
Then the shaft will fail, even, if hardened, at oil passages.
I occasionally speak/email with Tony at Hughes, and they have done some testing on these (possibly for GM), and he says the best scenario so far has been cryro treating NEW parts. At $300 for a new drum/shaft from GM, then cryro costs, that adds significant cost to the build and as we all know, the customer balks.
Then the gear ratios are too far off for most drag cars.
Chris, you should make a few more of the 2.66 gearsets...
The only real FIX I can see would be change the gear ratio, and completely design the input drum/shaft to use a larger surface area 3-4 clutch/ larger apply area, and get rid of the finger apply design. This would be a major redesign, probably to the point of needing case mods/redesign.
I know some guys are having limited success in the 9s or 10s but I feel that if you are truthful with a customer you would recommend a 4L80E if OD is a necessity.
I'm also curious to hear Frank's thoughts on the subject.
Id love to know the components required to get one of these (700, 4l60e) to live at 700 ft lbs/6500+rpm myself. I turned down a job for one of those in a blown LT1 last year. I couldnt guarantee hard parts breakage with the hydraualic calibration required to hold the torque and instead talked the owner into a 400 with an electric brake. CPT Please post pics of these hard parts and explain the hydraulic calibration further. As Chris stated this is a very open forum and all the builders explain their products and calibrations. Theres always room for improvement in anything. Thats how the 200-4R got to the level it has today surviving low 10's and high 9's in 3600 lb cars. Without the vendors on this board manufacturing new parts it would have been done for most of us 10 years ago and 400's would be more common than they are.
UNDER-PRESSURE
..... Member .....
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2006
Why are we welcoming a new person (CPT) to this forum with such disrespect?
Why would anybody in there right mind give up there trade secrets? I certainly wouldn't give up any information to this firing line! Why does he have to answer & do research here? That's pretty funny actually. It would seem some companies should be researching his product?
The only thing this post has done for me is help show me where NOT to spend my money and i thank CK performance for that.
Take care & good luck!
Why would anybody in there right mind give up there trade secrets? I certainly wouldn't give up any information to this firing line! Why does he have to answer & do research here? That's pretty funny actually.
It would seem some companies should be researching his product? The only thing this post has done for me is help show me where NOT to spend my money and i thank CK performance for that.
Take care & good luck!
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