Why is 85 so rare in canada

[SNOWBIRD]

I would like to run my gn on 85 but cannot find any in montreal quebec....what gives?????

 

[49-blues]

Do you have corn crops in canada?

 

[SNOWBIRD]

tons...

 

[Turbo Indian]

probably the same reason it is scarce in many places in the US. because it is NOT cost effective to make it, & many people have realised that fuel economy drops so the demand drops. besides it just gives the tree huggers a hard on.

 

[norbs]

Here you go drive to Ottawa

National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition (NEVC) and E85

 

[1outlaw]

E85 not cost effective to make? With ethanol producers getting $1.45 at the plant gate and gasoline at the terminal for $2.17 it is cost effective as long as it does not pass through an oil company's hands. The real answer to your question may lie in who controls the gasoline business and how far away the nearest ethanol plant is right now. If you were an oil company why would you want to provide a competing product to yours and do it in a way it is cost effective? Typically oil companies add 30 to 80 cents gross margin on ethanol around here- it is cost effective when an ethanol plant is in the area and chooses to help a station by-pass the oil terminal. You may have to wait in Montreal until either an ethanol plant is built nearby or ethanol storage/distribution is built outside of the oil industry. Ethanol can easily be made from any starch, waste whey, or sugar source. It is more difficult but rapidly becoming a reality to make ethanol from waste and celulosic sources. About 1/3 of the ethanol I use comes from whey that used to be landspread just to get rid of it.

As far as mpg loss- look at my recent post regarding the Buick Regal 2L FFV turbo coming in the second half of 2011- mpg differential in the single digit %.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/317851-2011-buick-regal-flex-fuel.html

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

Maybe it has to do with Canada being generally colder and the crappy starting associated with E85 in the cold. I also have read some stuff about it not being cost effective to make and that more than a gallon of oil/gas is used to produce 1 gallon of e85.

 

[1outlaw]

Maybe it has to do with Canada being generally colder and the crappy starting associated with E85 in the cold. I also have read some stuff about it not being cost effective to make and that more than a gallon of oil/gas is used to produce 1 gallon of e85.

I am in Central WI and my fleet start on E70 (normal winter blend) at minus -25 as good as gasoline. The cold start enrichment part of the tune needs to be correct. Montreal is not a whole lot far north by lattitude.

As far as ethanol's energy used to make- consider this;

From my days in the fossil fuel business it took 1 BTU of Crude to provide 0.8 btu of finished products- this is a net loss of 20% and is not getting better as the crude sources get deeper or unconventional sources like oil sands become the norm.

Using the same method to calculate ethanol use of energy (including the fossil sources and transport) the worst case least efficient older methods are 1 btu input provides 1.25 btu output (gain comes from the corn plant conversion of sunlight). Newer cropping and ethanol plant methods have moved this ratio to 1 btu in= 1.68 btu out. Today's farming practices around here only use approx 4-8 gallons of diesel per acre and the corn coming off that acre will yield 375 to 450 gal of ethanol. Natural gas is the main energy used and that is a bit harder to use in cars than liquid fuels. Cane and cellulosic is even better.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I'd imagine the colder weather, fuel supplier network and probable lack of Gov subsidies could be the reason.

As time moves forward with energy demands increasing and technology getting better, Ethanol will make a bigger impact in Canada like it's starting to here.