What's the best way to drop the front 1.5" or so?

[GlockandRoll]

Are spindles needed?

 

[T-CHRGD]

Lowering springs are the best/easiest way to go.
IMO drop spindles are not the way to go. Do a search on 'drop spindles' and I think you will find more negative comments than positive. :wink:

 

[GlockandRoll]

Thanks.
Who makes he best set?

I'm probably going to upgrade my front shocks and sway bar also, in addition to rear springs/sway bar, shocks and bushing upgrades.

 

[1fast6]

easiest and cheapest is to cut the springs.

 

[T-CHRGD]

Thanks.
Who makes he best set?

I'm probably going to upgrade my front shocks and sway bar also, in addition to rear springs/sway bar, shocks and bushing upgrades.

I run Eibach's, but SPC or Hotchkis would also be on the 'best' list. Bilstein shocks seem to be the best, unless you go up to adjustable shocks. Lots of good swaybars out there too. Many new tubular bars are now available to save on weight.

 

[49-blues]

Moog 5658s.

 

[GlockandRoll]

I run Eibach's, but SPC or Hotchkis would also be on the 'best' list. Bilstein shocks seem to be the best, unless you go up to adjustable shocks. Lots of good swaybars out there too. Many new tubular bars are now available to save on weight.

Thanks, I'll go for the best for the money. If I can get Eibachs and Bilstein's, what sway bar upgrade would you recommend... hollow definitely for the wieght!

 

[scot w.]

Lowering springs are the best/easiest way to go.
IMO drop spindles are not the way to go. Do a search on 'drop spindles' and I think you will find more negative comments than positive. :wink:

x2! Agree 100%....

 

[GregInAtl]

the cheapest and easiest way is let the air out of your tires.

 

[scot w.]

Thanks.
Who makes he best set?

I'm probably going to upgrade my front shocks and sway bar also, in addition to rear springs/sway bar, shocks and bushing upgrades.

We have complete bolt-in G-Body suspension products/kits where the shocks are valved to match the springs and would make for a Perfect set up. We also have very reasonable sway bars with patented technology for one of the largest leading manufactures out there today.

Check it out -> GNS


Let us know if we can help.

Scot W.

 

[supercrackerbox]

We have complete bolt-in G-Body suspension products/kits where the shocks are valved to match the springs and would make for a Perfect set up. We also have very reasonable sway bars with patented technology for one of the largest leading manufactures out there today.

Check it out -> GNS


Let us know if we can help.

Scot W.

Do you have any before and after pics of a car with those springs installed?

 

[scot w.]

Do you have any before and after pics of a car with those springs installed?

We will shortly! We plan to be installing the complete Front & Rear set up on our GNS Test Car very soon and we will document everything from start to finish.

SW.

 

[jdpolzin]

Lots of good info.....trial and error and real world testing in this thread:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/br...5658-front-spring-results.html?highlight=5658

Otherwise you can also buy a manufactured drop spring. I'd hit up Savitske Classic & Custom for a Hellwig or Spohn front and rear swaybars, Marcus at SCANDC is top notch when it comes to suspensions for our cars and is always glad talk tech.

 

[GlockandRoll]

We have complete bolt-in G-Body suspension products/kits where the shocks are valved to match the springs and would make for a Perfect set up. We also have very reasonable sway bars with patented technology for one of the largest leading manufactures out there today.

Check it out -> GNS


Let us know if we can help.

Scot W.

Thanks for chiming in here Scott.
I ran into your demo car on pro-touring.com, looks sick!

Please forgive my ignorance here, but what options do I have for droping it, making it not roll so much?

can I just get springs/shocks/swaybar/bushings? I dont want to change controll arms, spindles, or anything like that.

Do you have something for the rear that will add a watts-link/PHB and a roll-bar, plus shocks/springs?

I cant rip/replace everything, but I do intend to drop it down a tad and make it handel better with some 17" AR torq-thrust wheels.

 

[scot w.]

Buying a manufactured drop spring is a good way to go But please do yourself a favor and also get the matching valved shocks that match the drop springs your installing or you will have the "Bread Wagon" feel to your suspension and it will ride like crap that in the end, you will be disapointed.

Jerremy there is always more than one way to skin a cat my friend and that's the same for suspensions! I know you have been down the spring road several times with this not working and that not working but in the end you are happy with the outcome you chose. The same goes for (T-Chrged) he has his watts link set up that he went with and in the end he is also happy with the outcome and this also includes a lot of others here as well so this brings me to the GNS Test Car (a whole different approch). We have decided to team up with one of the top 2 industry Leaders (DSE & Ride Tech) in High Performance Suspensions to bring the Buick Comunity a complete "Matched" bolt in pro-touring suspension that is available from just one place. This makes it nice and easy for the customer Knowing this set up has been tested and proven Instead of piecing a suspension together from several manufactures without actual testing of those combined products.

DSE is one of the top 2 High Performance Suspension company's out there today with there own test cars and customers at the top of Autocross/Roadrace events all over the country. Now with credentials like that you know their products have been "Real World" tested above the rest and it shows as their customers compete right along side of the companys test cars!

We will be testing our 2nd GNS company car again at this years RTTH6 event to gather data for us as well as DSE. First we will be putting the new complete front & rear DSE suspension to the test on the Autocross course on sat then we will be testing the stock brakes in a "Speed Stop Challenge" on Sunday. The reason for testing the STOCK brakes is to gather data in Stock form before installing the BAER Track-4 set up so this will give us a OEM base test and a after market brake comparison. This kind of testing is what lets our customers know how well the products we sell work with "Real World" results!

A lot of these company's nowaday's are out there to just sell parts. You don't see a company "Test Car" out there at the events Showcasing what there products can do on the track or how well they work. As a buyer How do we really know how they work? We don't! They look good, price is good and we have people on message boards saying they work good but where is the track tested results of these products? This has been a subject that I have struggled with for years seeing these various suspension products raved about without actual "Real World / Track testing".

Personally I would love to have all of the "pro-touring" built cars from here together at an event sometime thrashing them around a Autocross / Roadcourse having a friendly competition! THAT would be awesome to see wouldn't it? Maybe with the recent "Hadling" craze more will be going this route and I can create an event around these type of cars instead of the dragracing/car show stuff...

 

[scot w.]

Thanks for chiming in here Scott.
I ran into your demo car on pro-touring.com, looks sick!

Please forgive my ignorance here, but what options do I have for droping it, making it not roll so much?

can I just get springs/shocks/swaybar/bushings? I dont want to change controll arms, spindles, or anything like that.

Do you have something for the rear that will add a watts-link/PHB and a roll-bar, plus shocks/springs?

I cant rip/replace everything, but I do intend to drop it down a tad and make it handel better with some 17" AR torq-thrust wheels.

Thanks for the compliments!

The answer is YES! We offer shocks & springs that are matched for eachother for a quality ride and performance. The sway bars we offer have been track tested for years and are a proven product with high quality Delrin bushings and the patented DSE "Swivel-Link"tm set up which elliminates bind.

For the rear we offer a "Chassis" mounted anti-roll bar that has the same componants as the front bar.

I garauntee that your car will handle 100% better with just Front & Rear sway bars, Matched Shocks & Springs. Then if later you want to step up a tad nore than the tubular adjustable A-arms can be installed along with the adjustable upper & lower rear control arms.


We will have fitment results in a week or so with some before and after measurements from the springs we carry...


SW.

 

[jdpolzin]

Buying a manufactured drop spring is a good way to go But please do yourself a favor and also get the matching valved shocks that match the drop springs your installing or you will have the "Bread Wagon" feel to your suspension and it will ride like crap that in the end, you will be disapointed.

Jerremy there is always more than one way to skin a cat my friend and that's the same for suspensions! I know you have been down the spring road several times with this not working and that not working but in the end you are happy with the outcome you chose. The same goes for (T-Chrged) he has his watts link set up that he went with and in the end he is also happy with the outcome and this also includes a lot of others here as well so this brings me to the GNS Test Car (a whole different approch). We have decided to team up with one of the top 2 industry Leaders (DSE & Ride Tech) in High Performance Suspensions to bring the Buick Comunity a complete "Matched" bolt in pro-touring suspension that is available from just one place. This makes it nice and easy for the customer Knowing this set up has been tested and proven Instead of piecing a suspension together from several manufactures without actual testing of those combined products.

DSE is one of the top 2 High Performance Suspension company's out there today with there own test cars and customers at the top of Autocross/Roadrace events all over the country. Now with credentials like that you know their products have been "Real World" tested above the rest and it shows as their customers compete right along side of the companys test cars!

We will be testing our 2nd GNS company car again at this years RTTH6 event to gather data for us as well as DSE. First we will be putting the new complete front & rear DSE suspension to the test on the Autocross course on sat then we will be testing the stock brakes in a "Speed Stop Challenge" on Sunday. The reason for testing the STOCK brakes is to gather data in Stock form before installing the BAER Track-4 set up so this will give us a OEM base test and a after market brake comparison. This kind of testing is what lets our customers know how well the products we sell work with "Real World" results!

A lot of these company's nowaday's are out there to just sell parts. You don't see a company "Test Car" out there at the events Showcasing what there products can do on the track or how well they work. As a buyer How do we really know how they work? We don't! They look good, price is good and we have people on message boards saying they work good but where is the track tested results of these products? This has been a subject that I have struggled with for years seeing these various suspension products raved about without actual "Real World / Track testing".

Personally I would love to have all of the "pro-touring" built cars from here together at an event sometime thrashing them around a Autocross / Roadcourse having a friendly competition! THAT would be awesome to see wouldn't it? Maybe with the recent "Hadling" craze more will be going this route and I can create an event around these type of cars instead of the dragracing/car show stuff...

Scott, I'm glad hat you feel you have the best products and the best car out there as you have preached on here for the past couple years....BUT!!!!!! Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat and there is also more products out there besides the ones that YOU sell.

So, this is a public forum and others should be welcome to give their input, this isnt a GNS Performance monopoly my friend, although any technical input that you could give us un-educated posters would be great to hear. I'm all ears!

As far as buying a "complete bolt in kit and why haggle with these parts here or these parts there".... Some people dont have the money or need to buy a complete bolt in kit so they can read the 5658 thread and get some good results by just simply replacing springs/bushings/shocks at a cost effective approach. Some people would rather buy a $70 set of front springs to lower their cars with a good spring rate and be done with it.

Remember, as much as you would like every board member to be your customer, not everyone will be becuase there are other options. As far as test cars, well that pretty much what I did in the 5658 thread but I dont have any companies products backing me. Just real world results before anybody else had the guts to try it here on the board. Those results were only here to give info, not to sell a product. So dog it if you want my friend, I really dont want the drama or negative phone calls again.

As far as the "companies that just sell you parts with out testing" comment goes: if this is in referrence to the "company" I think you are referrencing, I dont think you want to go down that path becuase that particular "company" has a ton of real world experience that dates back a lot longer than you've sold taillights and tach mounts.

I'd love to see a G-Body challange of the countries top companies cars. Does DSE have a GBody car that could be put into that challange? I can think of one particular Grand Prix that has those "parts" thrown at it that I'd put my money on! I also agree that it would be awesome to see more events based on something other than the drag strip, that gets pretty boring but it's also nice to see cars that flat out haul balls! But some of us can handle and still run 9's!!

 

[scot w.]

Scott, I'm glad hat you feel you have the best products and the best car out there as you have preached on here for the past couple years....BUT!!!!!! Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat and there is also more products out there besides the ones that YOU sell.

So, this is a public forum and others should be welcome to give their input, this isnt a GNS Performance monopoly my friend, although any technical input that you could give us un-educated posters would be great to hear. I'm all ears!

As far as buying a "complete bolt in kit and why haggle with these parts here or these parts there".... Some people dont have the money or need to buy a complete bolt in kit so they can read the 5658 thread and get some good results by just simply replacing springs/bushings/shocks at a cost effective approach. Some people would rather buy a $70 set of front springs to lower their cars with a good spring rate and be done with it.

Remember, as much as you would like every board member to be your customer, not everyone will be becuase there are other options. As far as test cars, well that pretty much what I did in the 5658 thread but I dont have any companies products backing me. Just real world results before anybody else had the guts to try it here on the board. Those results were only here to give info, not to sell a product. So dog it if you want my friend, I really dont want the drama or negative phone calls again.

As far as the "companies that just sell you parts with out testing" comment goes: if this is in referrence to the "company" I think you are referrencing, I dont think you want to go down that path becuase that particular "company" has a ton of real world experience that dates back a lot longer than you've sold taillights and tach mounts.

I'd love to see a G-Body challange of the countries top companies cars. Does DSE have a GBody car that could be put into that challange? I can think of one particular Grand Prix that has those "parts" thrown at it that I'd put my money on! I also agree that it would be awesome to see more events based on something other than the drag strip, that gets pretty boring but it's also nice to see cars that flat out haul balls! But some of us can handle and still run 9's!!

LOL Yes of course DSE has a G-Body company car that will be at the RTTH event here in sept. Do you think a company of that caliber wouldn't? lol

Why don't you bring your car down for this event and compete?

Are you still upset because my wheels worked out perfectly when you told me they wouldn't and I should send them back before I mounted them? Thank god I didn't listen... Remember this thread? http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/brakes-suspensions-tires-wheels/295038-ccw-wheels.html

You posted:
jdpolzin
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Davenport, Iowa
Trader Rating: (36)
Posts: 6,024
Scott, I am very excited for you and I do hope it works out.......really I do man. BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......... I think your going to have problems. They will work at stock ride height with fairly stiff springs. Most aftermarket brake kits push the wheel out 3/8". I shredded a 245 with my combo and had to drop to a 225. My wheels are 8" wide with a 4.5 bs and C5 brakes which push the wheel out 3/8" so compare the two. I am low though, about as low as one can go and still keep ride quality, fron end geometery, and no rubs.

Your wheel with your stock brakes are going to be out 7/8" farther than mine did. Your tire is 4/10 wider and almost 3/8 taller to the fender.

Dont go too low and use a high spring rate and you'll be ok but it's really limiting you on any future upgrades. (brakes, lowering)

On another note, I know with that BS and width on the rear you'll be ok but it's going to sit out enough that they wont tuck. So.....thats going to limit how low you go in the rear as well.


In my honest opinion, I wouldnt use those wheels man. I really hate to say but I have too. I really really hope I'm wrong because I truly want the best for you.


"Wheels are still on and Since then I LOWERED THE CAR! Without a single issue!!

Rear tires TUCK in the wheel well just fine!!

And also plan to do the BAER brake upgrade and my guess would be that I have no problems at all then either..."

YOU SHREADED your tires and I HAVEN'T!
YOU HAD TO GO SMALLER while I WENT WIDER!! Looks like someone knows what they are talking about, Are you still all ears??


Not once did I single out a certain company but only mentioned it has a whole for a bunch of company's out there so please relax, it's okay..

I also understand that people are on a budget and that is Exactly why a complete bolt-in kit from one company who has Track tested their products is a great way for people to buy what they can afford and work their way up and when done, be confident they have a complete kit that has been tested and Proven.

I have also read your Moog thread and as it is informative and all there is also people on it that were not happy at all with those springs. There is other springs out there that work too but in EVERY single thread about springs you always chime in boasting about that one thread your did about Moog... Maybe you need to start practicing what you preach instead of bad mouthing and writing childish remarks that show your true colors. I didn't do it to you, but thats what you resorted to me back!

Obviously you can't handle constructive criticism..

You keep doing what you do Jeremy, This is your world and were just living in it..


Enjoy.

 

[jdpolzin]

LOL Yes of course DSE has a G-Body company car that will be at the RTTH event here in sept. Do you think a company of that caliber wouldn't? lol

Why don't you bring your car down for this event and compete?

Are you still upset because my wheels worked out perfectly when you told me they wouldn't and I should send them back before I mounted them? Thank god I didn't listen... Remember this thread? http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/brakes-suspensions-tires-wheels/295038-ccw-wheels.html

You posted:
jdpolzin
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Davenport, Iowa
Trader Rating: (36)
Posts: 6,024
Scott, I am very excited for you and I do hope it works out.......really I do man. BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.......... I think your going to have problems. They will work at stock ride height with fairly stiff springs. Most aftermarket brake kits push the wheel out 3/8". I shredded a 245 with my combo and had to drop to a 225. My wheels are 8" wide with a 4.5 bs and C5 brakes which push the wheel out 3/8" so compare the two. I am low though, about as low as one can go and still keep ride quality, fron end geometery, and no rubs.

Your wheel with your stock brakes are going to be out 7/8" farther than mine did. Your tire is 4/10 wider and almost 3/8 taller to the fender.

Dont go too low and use a high spring rate and you'll be ok but it's really limiting you on any future upgrades. (brakes, lowering)

On another note, I know with that BS and width on the rear you'll be ok but it's going to sit out enough that they wont tuck. So.....thats going to limit how low you go in the rear as well.


In my honest opinion, I wouldnt use those wheels man. I really hate to say but I have too. I really really hope I'm wrong because I truly want the best for you.


"Wheels are still on and Since then I LOWERED THE CAR! Without a single issue!!

Rear tires TUCK in the wheel well just fine!!

And also plan to do the BAER brake upgrade and my guess would be that I have no problems at all then either..."

YOU SHREADED your tires and I HAVEN'T!
YOU HAD TO GO SMALLER while I WENT WIDER!! Looks like someone knows what they are talking about, Are you still all ears??


Not once did I single out a certain company but only mentioned it has a whole for a bunch of company's out there so please relax, it's okay..

I also understand that people are on a budget and that is Exactly why a complete bolt-in kit from one company who has Track tested their products is a great way for people to buy what they can afford and work their way up and when done, be confident they have a complete kit that has been tested and Proven.

I have also read your Moog thread and as it is informative and all there is also people on it that were not happy at all with those springs. There is other springs out there that work too but in EVERY single thread about springs you always chime in boasting about that one thread your did about Moog... Maybe you need to start practicing what you preach instead of bad mouthing and writing childish remarks that show your true colors. I didn't do it to you, but thats what you resorted to me back!

Obviously you can't handle constructive criticism..

You keep doing what you do Jeremy, This is your world and were just living in it..


Enjoy.

Hey Scott, well I do agree that your rear wheels have fit just fine with your Hotchkis springs but I didnt say you would have a problem with the rears did I? Nope! Just wanted you to double measure them. i said you should need to make sure your FRONTS will fit with a lowered suspension because many of us have problems past a certain point. How have you lowered your front? Last I heard you were still on stock springs and brakes in the front and even heard you narrowed your front rims. Did you? I cant verify that nor do I care but the fact is when any of us post something, 1000 people follow our set ups. So, 99% of G-Body owners have issues with rims over 8.5" wide in the front once lowered with brakes. Thats why I posted so that I could possibly save you from a future hassle since you havent dipped into modded suspension/brakes until now. Get mad about it if you want but stock suspension and brakes dont mean that your lowered. I could care less and I sincerely appologize for trying to help. Some of us are on here to help, not make money.

I'm not here to get into a pissing match with you. And I dont BOAST about every thread on lowering a car. I simply state the tried and true facts. Maybe we should just let you take over with your professional suspension tech talk? I'd like to read some of it if you could ad a little to it?

You went wider? YES on a stock suspension and brakes.

Fact is, there are other options out there for people. I would think it would be great if you could fit a 36" wide rim in a stock fender up front if thats what you'd want to do. Whatever floats your boat.


If you can make a 9.5" wide rim fit up front while being extremely lowered with big brakes, thats AWESOME!!!!!! Show me the set up and describe what the camber/caster benefits would be instead of saying you "throw your car around curves at 20mph." I know particular companies that have cars that thow thier car around curves at 160mph and you know what cars I'm talking about.


So what is your lowered front suspension set up now before the DSE parts? I'd like to know so we can document rim width, backspacing, spring drop, BJ drop, spindle drop, alignment specs, brake set up, spindle set up, toe in, toe out, etc? If you can do it, I'm game to change my set up in a second if I knew I could match the performance of my current set up. I want to hear what actually works with a modded set up, not a stock set up.

 

[scot w.]

Hey Scott, well I do agree that your rear wheels have fit just fine with your Hotchkis springs but I didnt say you would have a problem with the rears did I? Nope! Just wanted you to double measure them. i said you should need to make sure your FRONTS will fit with a lowered suspension because many of us have problems past a certain point. How have you lowered your front? Last I heard you were still on stock springs and brakes in the front and even heard you narrowed your front rims. Did you? I cant verify that nor do I care but the fact is when any of us post something, 1000 people follow our set ups. So, 99% of G-Body owners have issues with rims over 8.5" wide in the front once lowered with brakes. Thats why I posted so that I could possibly save you from a future hassle since you havent dipped into modded suspension/brakes until now. Get mad about it if you want but stock suspension and brakes dont mean that your lowered. I could care less and I sincerely appologize for trying to help. Some of us are on here to help, not make money.

Not mad about anything Jeremy, Your the one showing anger by using childish remarks, Not me! You did say the rear tires wouldn't Tuck and they sure did without a single issue. My rear measures from the ground to the edge of the fender lip in the center of the rim 26-5/8" and the front measures 25-1/4" where is yours? I plan on going with the BAER Trac-4 set up with 13" rotors and 4 piston calipers so I will let you and everyone else know the outcome but judging from your responses I doubt that you will even care if I can make them fit or not so I will do it for the members here.

Wheels have Never been changed, Still 9.5" wide and I may even move up to a 265 tire. At some point you will have to finally agree with me on what i'm doing because Everything that You said Wouldn't work, HAS Worked! and IF I have to ever go with a narrower front rim it will be really simple because they are 3-piece and all you have to do is change out the hoops, and CCW already said they will do that for Free!! SO, With that said it might be a tad bit more costly to go up to a 3-piece wheel but at least your not Stuck with them and having to buy a whole different rim!

Your "Trying to help" seems to be way different than most people! LOL

I'm not here to get into a pissing match with you. And I dont BOAST about every thread on lowering a car. I simply state the tried and true facts. Maybe we should just let you take over with your professional suspension tech talk? I'd like to read some of it if you could ad a little to it?

Ahhh here we go again with the small jabs! lol Dude you should look back at your own posts and see for yourself that every time someone puts up a thread LIKE THIS ONE you chime in with your Moog thread like those springs are the only ones that work, THEY ARE NOT! PLUS you have"COMPLETELY" missed what my whole post was about that you got all puffed out over... It wasn't bashing you at all but simply Explaining the different Way's our suspensions work for us and to not push just one. And here you are trying to tell me that..... Crazy...

You went wider? YES on a stock suspension and brakes. YEP, What is the height of your front? Mine is 25-1/4" without those heavy 650lb springs you said I would need!

Fact is, there are other options out there for people.

EXACTLY! Please re-read that post of mine that got you all bent up and maybe you will understand that, that was exactly what I was trying to say by mentioning all our different set ups and that in the end are happy with the outcome!!! Geeze

If you can make a 9.5" wide rim fit up front while being extremely lowered with big brakes, thats AWESOME!!!!!! Show me the set up and describe what the camber/caster benefits would be instead of saying you "throw your car around curves at 20mph." I know particular companies that have cars that thow thier car around curves at 160mph and you know what cars I'm talking about.

First I Never said I throw my car around curves at 20mph so please stop putting words in my mouth that were never said! Again why don't you post up your Extremely lowered measurements and we will see how far ours are off? You will be able to read all about this set up when it's all done because there will be a full thread on it listing Everything for the members to read.

So what is your lowered front suspension set up now before the DSE parts? I'd like to know so we can document rim width, backspacing, spring drop, BJ drop, spindle drop, alignment specs, brake set up, spindle set up, toe in, toe out, etc? If you can do it, I'm game to change my set up in a second if I knew I could match the performance of my current set up. I want to hear what actually works with a modded set up, not a stock set up.

I will be doing a complete new suspension thread listing all of my Before measurements and After measurements for everyone to read along with detailed pictures of each step and possibly some video. Stay tuned because I would love to actually see you change your set up so you can run a larger front tire after all.. :biggrin: As a matter of fact I can give you a bunch of those measurements right now if you wish? All this stuff has been done recently to get ready for the change out.