Front Brake upgrade to Wilwood 140-12837?

[VtheGNMan]

I am looking to upgrade the stock brakes on my car this winter.
I was considering the famous Blazer brake upgrade but looking at this Wilwood Kit it seems like it may be better still.

Wilwood Disc Brakes

1987 Buick Regal Grand National AllPart No: 140-12837-DR, brakes, disc brakes, big brakes, bbk, brake conversion kit, bolt-on brake kits, front brakes, calipers, axle flange, housing, rotors, dynalite, dynapro, superlite, d52

www.wilwood.com

I have aftermarket 15" Aluminum GN wheels and am keeping them so they have to fit inside the stock wheel specs.
Vacuum brake conversion already done on the car and don't want to change it.
I have 2" drop spindles and really don't want to have to purchase new spindles too and the Wilwood kit has you just modify the spindles you have.
The Wilwood kit is a 6 piston whereas the Blazer is just 2.

Does anyone have any feedback on this Wilwood Kit?

 

[TType85]

With the Wilwood kit make sure you measure really carefully that they will fit in the 15" rim as it says "some 15" rims". It looks like a really nice kit.

The blazer upgrade is a nice upgrade over stock and much cheaper than the Wilwood kit and has the advantage that you can buy replacement parts at any auto parts store vs having to order and wait. The Wilwood has about 5" of piston area and so do the Blazer calipers but the Wilwood has a bit larger rotor. The advantage of the Wilwood calipers would be hopefully less flex and maybe more even pad wear. It would probably just really depend on if you are going for looks or just functionality.

 

[Turbo6inKY]

I am looking to upgrade the stock brakes on my car this winter.
I was considering the famous Blazer brake upgrade but looking at this Wilwood Kit it seems like it may be better still.

Wilwood Disc Brakes

1987 Buick Regal Grand National AllPart No: 140-12837-DR, brakes, disc brakes, big brakes, bbk, brake conversion kit, bolt-on brake kits, front brakes, calipers, axle flange, housing, rotors, dynalite, dynapro, superlite, d52

www.wilwood.com

I have aftermarket 15" Aluminum GN wheels and am keeping them so they have to fit inside the stock wheel specs.
Vacuum brake conversion already done on the car and don't want to change it.
I have 2" drop spindles and really don't want to have to purchase new spindles too and the Wilwood kit has you just modify the spindles you have.
The Wilwood kit is a 6 piston whereas the Blazer is just 2.

Does anyone have any feedback on this Wilwood Kit?

I have the 140-12298 kit and used to have the old now-defunct 10.75" kit with.

The spindle modifications can be tough if you don't have the proper equipment to cut the cast iron stock caliper mount ears off, and the enlargement and countersink on the holes for the new bracket needs to be done precisely or you'll never get the caliper parallel with the rotor. If you don't countersink the holes, they'll crack.

The Q series brake pad compound they like to include in their kits sort of sucks. Look at an EBC Yellowstuff or a Porterfield R4S for street/strip pads. My experience with Wilwood's rotors and Hawk products wasn't good. They stopped great, but the Hawk compound destroyed the rotors quickly. Like, I was replacing rotors twice as often as the pads, which was backwards. And expensive.

I've also had problems with the dust cap unscrewing itself on the driver side and screwing itself on so tight on the passenger side I have to use a pipe wrench to remove it. A piece of tape keeps the driver side on, and I just have to keep a few spare caps in stock for the other side. I've bitched at Wilwood repeatedly to develop a new cap with flats on it we can use a wrench on without destroying them. They've acknowledged the problem, but nothing's come out yet.

Oh, and safety wiring the rotor to the hat is a chore. I highly recommend you get the high-temp red Loctite instead. The rotor to hat bolts really shouldn't be re-used when you swap a rotor out, either. Wilwood charges a fortune for theirs. I got replacements at McMaster-Carr for much less.

 

[VtheGNMan]

I have the 140-12298 kit and used to have the old now-defunct 10.75" kit with.

The spindle modifications can be tough if you don't have the proper equipment to cut the cast iron stock caliper mount ears off, and the enlargement and countersink on the holes for the new bracket needs to be done precisely or you'll never get the caliper parallel with the rotor. If you don't countersink the holes, they'll crack.

The Q series brake pad compound they like to include in their kits sort of sucks. Look at an EBC Yellowstuff or a Porterfield R4S for street/strip pads. My experience with Wilwood's rotors and Hawk products wasn't good. They stopped great, but the Hawk compound destroyed the rotors quickly. Like, I was replacing rotors twice as often as the pads, which was backwards. And expensive.

I've also had problems with the dust cap unscrewing itself on the driver side and screwing itself on so tight on the passenger side I have to use a pipe wrench to remove it. A piece of tape keeps the driver side on, and I just have to keep a few spare caps in stock for the other side. I've bitched at Wilwood repeatedly to develop a new cap with flats on it we can use a wrench on without destroying them. They've acknowledged the problem, but nothing's come out yet.

Oh, and safety wiring the rotor to the hat is a chore. I highly recommend you get the high-temp red Loctite instead. The rotor to hat bolts really shouldn't be re-used when you swap a rotor out, either. Wilwood charges a fortune for theirs. I got replacements at McMaster-Carr for much less.

Thanks for the input and experience. Hearing this, I'm leaning toward the Blazer brake upgrade. Seems like the spindles are the tricky part to find. Especially up here in snow county where 2wd Blazers are the unicorn.

 

[Turbo6inKY]

Thanks for the input and experience. Hearing this, I'm leaning toward the Blazer brake upgrade. Seems like the spindles are the tricky part to find. Especially up here in snow county where 2wd Blazers are the unicorn.

The Blazer "upgrade" really doesn't get you much. That extra quarter inch of rotor diameter doesn't help tremendously. You'd get far more improvement for a lot less money and time by just swapping to a more aggressive pad on the stockers. It does get you a modern rotor that's not cast to the hub, though, which is nice when changing brakes. You don't have to do the bearings each time.

The advantage to kits like the Wilwood is they're lighter and look awesome. They don't necessarily stop the car better since that's more of a factor of the pad selection and clamp force from the caliper. The clamp force is a function of piston area and line pressure, and if you look at the specs on the Wilwood calipers, the total piston area is about the same as the stock single-piston caliper. If you're putting the car on a road course, the bigger kits provide a better heat sink and more cooling to fight fade, but for street/strip use that's really not a concern.

Honestly, for a street/strip car, the best bang with bling is the schmancy Wilwood D154 floating caliper on the stock or Blazer setup with a better brake pad.

Wilwood Disc Brakes

Part No: 120-11870-BK, calipers, dynapro, dynapro 6, big brake, dynalite, dynalite pro, forged dynalite, d52, superlite, sl6, sl4, tc6r, promatrix, w6ar, rotors

wilwood.com

 

[VtheGNMan]

The Blazer "upgrade" really doesn't get you much. That extra quarter inch of rotor diameter doesn't help tremendously. You'd get far more improvement for a lot less money and time by just swapping to a more aggressive pad on the stockers. It does get you a modern rotor that's not cast to the hub, though, which is nice when changing brakes. You don't have to do the bearings each time.

The advantage to kits like the Wilwood is they're lighter and look awesome. They don't necessarily stop the car better since that's more of a factor of the pad selection and clamp force from the caliper. The clamp force is a function of piston area and line pressure, and if you look at the specs on the Wilwood calipers, the total piston area is about the same as the stock single-piston caliper. If you're putting the car on a road course, the bigger kits provide a better heat sink and more cooling to fight fade, but for street/strip use that's really not a concern.

Honestly, for a street/strip car, the best bang with bling is the schmancy Wilwood D154 floating caliper on the stock or Blazer setup with a better brake pad.

Wilwood Disc Brakes

Part No: 120-11870-BK, calipers, dynapro, dynapro 6, big brake, dynalite, dynalite pro, forged dynalite, d52, superlite, sl6, sl4, tc6r, promatrix, w6ar, rotors

wilwood.com

More great info Turbo6inKY! I'll take a look the D154 kit. That might be a great option and provide some upgrade over stock. I see there is a single piston option but also a dual piston option.
Which would you recommend?

Wilwood 140-12100-R: D154 Dual Piston Front Caliper Kit Bore Size: 1.62" - JEGS High Performance

Buy Wilwood 140-12100-R at JEGS: Wilwood D154 Dual Piston Front Caliper Kit Bore Size: 1.62

www.jegs.com

What should I be looking for in brake pad for clamping force? I want to be able to hold some boost without pushing thru. I have Roll Control on the car which is plumbed to eliminate the rear brakes when activated. I have drilled and slotted rotors on the front but don't know what pads are on it, and it still just pushes the car. I don't drive the car enough to worry about how long the pads last.

 

[Turbo6inKY]

More great info Turbo6inKY! I'll take a look the D154 kit. That might be a great option and provide some upgrade over stock. I see there is a single piston option but also a dual piston option.
Which would you recommend?

Wilwood 140-12100-R: D154 Dual Piston Front Caliper Kit Bore Size: 1.62" - JEGS High Performance

Buy Wilwood 140-12100-R at JEGS: Wilwood D154 Dual Piston Front Caliper Kit Bore Size: 1.62

www.jegs.com

What should I be looking for in brake pad for clamping force? I want to be able to hold some boost without pushing thru. I have Roll Control on the car which is plumbed to eliminate the rear brakes when activated. I have drilled and slotted rotors on the front but don't know what pads are on it, and it still just pushes the car. I don't drive the car enough to worry about how long the pads last.

As for which caliper, that's really up to you. They have approximately the same piston area.

You want a pad with great cold bite, so something like an EBC Yellowstuff, Porterfield R4S, Hawk HP, and CarboTech has a few good pads but you'd have to call them, I don't know their product line that well.

Also check the check valve on your booster. If it's leaking, you'll pressurize it on the line and start losing brake pressure at the caliper and it'll do exactly what you're describing.

 

[VtheGNMan]

Thanks again for all your help. Just ordered the Wilwood D154 140-12097 kit, flex line kit #220-12104 and a check valve from Jegs. Got an additional $50 off on top of their good pricing with a deal they are running right now.
I'll see how the Wilwood pads are and can always change them.