Tso Top Gun Point Series

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Rules
INTENT: This a heads up class for 81-87 Buick regal bodied cars running single turbo Buick V6 engines and stock style rear suspension with a 10.5" tire. The class is to be run on a .400 pro-tree and on a pro-ladder and with a 9.99 minimum qualifying time. All cars must have all applicable safety equipment for speeds obtained and must be able to pass host track safety tech.

Class minimum weight is 3200#

1. BODY: 1981-1987 Regal body required with stock firewall location and full stock frame with stock wheelbase required (108.0" measured). Frame modifications for roll cages, safety, tire size and cross member clearance are allowed. Four functioning headlights and taillights required. Light weight aftermarket body panels allowed. No pin on doors or front ends allowed. Doors must have door panels and be functional with functional windows allowed.

2. EXHAUST: No part of turbo exhaust may exit forward of engine flywheel area and a muffler is required.

3. FRONT SUSPENSION: Must have stock mounting locations. Any aftermarket bolt on part is allowed. Rack and pinion conversions are allowed

4. REAR SUSPENSION: must maintain factory mounting locations on the frame. Coil over conversion allowed, sway bar and panhard bar modifications are allowed. Must maintain factory 4-link arrangement. Any automotive type solid axle housing allowed.

5. TIRES: Slicks w/ sidewall designation up to a 29.5” x 10.50” -15” size , W tires are allowed. ** Phoenix Brand 11.5”standard and W sidewall designation tires are not allowed do to tread width restrictions. DOT street tires w/sidewall designations up to a 30.0” x 13.50”-15” size tire are allowed

6. TURBO: Only one allowed and must be located within the engine compartment and must not be forward of the factory core support(** See below). Any commercially available turbine or compressor housing is allowed. They must carry a manufacturer part number that is readily available to the general public prior to Jan1 of the current race season. No modifications to the header flange maybe made. Maximum turbo size is 88mm to be checked with a plug (**See below).

7. TRANSMISSION: Any GM automatic transmission w/ any torque converter allowed. No Lenco, Liberty or manual transmissions with or without clutch allowed.

8. FUEL: Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed. No additional injection/spray of any sort in or on the motor, turbo, IC, drive train etc. NOS bottle(s) shall not be on vehicle during competition or qualifying.

9. Interior: Stock appearing dashboard and passenger seat required, interior must be carpeted and as close to factory appearing as possible. Rear seat may be removed, but area shall be carpeted.

WEIGHTS:
3200# for any turbo up to an 82mm
3300# for a 83mm to an 88mm turbo

ADDITIONS:
-50# for any non-production block
-50# for any 4.1 block or aftermarket block
-50# for any non-conforming turbo location
-100# for any turbine housing flange greater than a T4
-100# for a liquid IC

Points
Per Event:
• To Show Up 25 points (Must sign in and attempt one qualifying pass)
•To Qualify 50 points you make the field
•Round Loss 40 points (car must run down full 1/4 mile under its own Power)
•Round Win 50 points
•Final Round winner 25 point (In addition to the 50 points for Round Win)
•Top MPH 10 points
•Low E.T. 10 points

Season conclusion Bonus points:
• Top MPH 15 points
• Low E.T. 15 points
The winner is the person who accumulates the most points from three of the events. Points are awarded to the name on the application.

In the event of a tie at the end of the season, then we look to qualifying ladder points #1 earns 16 points, #2 earns 15 points and so on. Tie breaker "Ladder" points will be a summation of points earned at the three TSO events that are being counted for points by each racer.

Payouts
Per Event:
Racers are competing for cash and prizes. Cash is generally put up by (A) the event organizers and (B) the TSO points series sponsors plus a portion of the racer registration fees. Cash from (A) is available to anyone that competes regardless of their participation in the points series. Cash from (B) is only available to TSO registered racers. Only the winner and runner up receive prizes from (A) whereas the (B) payouts go to the 2 TSO registered racers that place the highest at each event. Sponsors may also offer contingency prizes.

Year End:
1st place - 50%,
2nd place - 35%,
3rd place - 15%.

Schedule

Norwalk Friday June 1 and Sunday June 2
- We are trying to organize this event so that TSO points series racers can run Q16 if they so desire. I am planning to run tech and qualifying on Friday. Some racers will want to show up on Sunday only so we may have to make it Sunday morning. What are your thoughts? The finals will be run on Sunday at this point. Bill is adamant about having an 8 car field but with this being the first event I don't see it being an issue.

BPG National Trail Raceway August 3-5
-This should be a fantastic event as always.

Midwest Challenge Sept. 8-9
The final detials of this race haven't been ironed out yet adn the event maybe moving from US41 to another track in Indiana. They are excited to have us and look forward to the event.

Cecil County Friday October 12-13
This will be the season finale and should be a good one! They have offered a nice race payout of $400, $200 to win, $100 RU and $50 each for semi's. Again they are going to base this on an 8 car field and will scale the payout for anything less.
__________________
 

lrayzer

Shop Dawg Emma
AAAGGHHEEEE, 4 races ???, all northern.....
Shall we secede from the union again ?
How about at least Reynolds in November ???
Yes our junk is still under construction, but the South is rising.......
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Good Question!

You are the first one I've heard from, from down that way with an interest in the class. All of the Florida racers I know about for whatever reason do not want to step up and race TSO and have decided to have thier own class called TSL to add to the alphabet soup:confused:

I tried to organize the points series with the G-S-C-A but have had no luck, and Cal no longer returns e-mail or phone calls:confused: :mad: So that pretty much rules out Reynolds and BG.

I would LOVE to have a race down South and agree that we need one but so far
i have not heard from anyone down there that is willing to support the points series.
 

HighPSI

Moderator
Staff member
You are the first one I've heard from, from down that way with an interest in the class. All of the Florida racers I know about for whatever reason do not want to step up and race TSO and have decided to have thier own class called TSL to add to the alphabet soup:confused:

Are you kidding me? I have "stepped up" and ran TSO EVERY year. I don't understand your confusion with TSL. You did the same thing, creating your own class. TSL is very similar to the original TSO rules. TSL just didn't steal the name.

I tried to organize the points series with the G-S-C-A but have had no luck, and Cal no longer returns e-mail or phone calls:confused: :mad: So that pretty much rules out Reynolds and BG..

I left a message today. I'm not sure what this will accomplish, since you have already ruled out BG.

I would LOVE to have a race down South and agree that we need one but so far
i have not heard from anyone down there that is willing to support the points series.

What's stopping you?
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Are you kidding me? I have "stepped up" and ran TSO EVERY year. I don't understand your confusion with TSL. You did the same thing, creating your own class. TSL is very similar to the original TSO rules. TSL just didn't steal the name.

You have told me on several occasions you are NOT going to runt he points series and only care about the G-S-C-A race am I missing something here? I'm not confused with TSL, the point series in NOT a whole new class it is the SAME basic rules we have been running without all the B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. No one who has raced TSO in the past would have to change a solitary thing on thier car to race and be competitive in the point series so HOW is this a new class???

TSL is a completely new class with new rules that are far more restrictive and even fewer racers can comply with. This class has done nothing but further fractionate the Buick HU classes and decrease car count. It is a shame that some of the TSL racers don't step up and race TSO when most if not all of them would be competitive in the class.

Just who owns the TSO name and exactly who stole it? IMO the majority of racers who raced the class own it so the point series is rightfully named.


I left a message today. I'm not sure what this will accomplish, since you have already ruled out BG.

Great next time instead of waiting 3 weeks sending several e-mails and leaving several VM I'll just page you on the internet. I have no control over BG you do, so how is it that I ruled it out? Your silence was your answer as far as I'm concerned. How long are we supposed to wait for a set of rules for next year?



What's stopping you?

This is not about me in anyway, although you like to make it seem that way, If there is racer support and a race promoter who wants us there, we'll be there. Pretty simple if you ask me.
 

HighPSI

Moderator
Staff member
You have told me on several occasions you are NOT going to runt he points series and only care about the G-S-C-A race am I missing something here?

Your statement said All of the Florida racers I know about for whatever reason do not want to step up and race TSO I clarrified that I was planning on running TSO and always have ran TSO.

I'm not confused with TSL
What does :confused: mean?

the point series in NOT a whole new class it is the SAME basic rules we have been running without all the B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. No one who has raced TSO in the past would have to change a solitary thing on thier car to race and be competitive in the point series so HOW is this a new class???

If it's not a new class then BG should be counted as part of the series. After all, BG has been the mainstay of the TSO class for years.

TSL is a completely new class with new rules that are far more restrictive and even fewer racers can comply with. This class has done nothing but further fractionate the Buick HU classes and decrease car count. It is a shame that some of the TSL racers don't step up and race TSO when most if not all of them would be competitive in the class.

That is your opinion. Just because a car is still legal doesn't make it the same class. We could all run the 10.5 class since everyone is still legal and it would open it up to even more cars. That doen't mean it's TSO. FWIW: I am not in favor of 3 diferent race classes (TSL, BG-TSO, and your TSO). Unfortunatly, it appears a compromise wasn't available.

Just who owns the TSO name and exactly who stole it? IMO the majority of racers who raced the class own it so the point series is rightfully named.

Nobody owns it. Gary Harmon came up with the name and then Fiscus, Gomes, myself, Cotton and Harmon raced in it the first year. Over the years, we have had revisions made. The biggest revision was made last year when EVERY TSO racer got involved and came up with an agreed upon set of rules.

This is not about me in anyway, although you like to make it seem that way, If there is racer support and a race promoter who wants us there, we'll be there. Pretty simple if you ask me.

Go for it and good luck! It's too bad we couldn't reach a compromise.
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Your statement said All of the Florida racers I know about for whatever reason do not want to step up and race TSO I clarrified that I was planning on running TSO and always have ran TSO.

This is a thread about the point series and you have stated you are not interested in running it. You have also mentioned your interest in running TSL.

What does :confused: mean?

Exactly that, with 6 turbo HU classes at BG how is it not confusing. What I would like to know is how to get a new class started at BG? TSL was started with less than 5 cars interesed and only 3 showing at the NATS. We at least have 14 guys interested in the point series you would think it would get SOME consideration:confused:



If it's not a new class then BG should be counted as part of the series. After all, BG has been the mainstay of the TSO class for years.

I would love for BG to be included but that is not up to me that is up to you and it is your decision NOT MINE to not have the point series at BG. Please do not confuse that issue I am not the G-S-C-A RRA YOU ARE.



That is your opinion. Just because a car is still legal doesn't make it the same class. We could all run the 10.5 class since everyone is still legal and it would open it up to even more cars. That doen't mean it's TSO. FWIW: I am not in favor of 3 diferent race classes (TSL, BG-TSO, and your TSO). Unfortunatly, it appears a compromise wasn't available.

Not an opinion a fact read the rules. The only things different are a wieght break for production adn 3.8 block and liquid IC allowed with a weight penalty. This was brought about as a result of racers who want to participate in the point series and we need participation.

Unlike BG it is impossible to have a HU point series with 3 cars showing to race. Promoters are unhappy, spectators are unhappy and sponsors are unhappy. Last but not least I can't see how that would make the racers happy although some fo the BG racers seem to be content with it.



Nobody owns it. Gary Harmon came up with the name and then Fiscus, Gomes, myself, Cotton and Harmon raced in it the first year. Over the years, we have had revisions made. The biggest revision was made last year when EVERY TSO racer got involved and came up with an agreed upon set of rules.

If nobody owns it how was it stolen? Exactly who was excluded from the point series rule discussion? I spoke to everyone who has raced the class since 03 and most of the potential new racers I know about.



Go for it and good luck! It's too bad we couldn't reach a compromise.

You were sent a set of "compromise" rules. I even posted them on T6P for all to see and discuss. You never returned my calls or my e-mails concerning this "compromise" set of rules. I did hear from some of the racers, though adn we were looking at losing 4 maybe 5 racers adn at least $1000 in sponsorship money. What was to be gained?

If you look at the rules above many "compromises" were made. The interior and body rules were tighten up. The turbo rule was revised The turbo location was clarified, a transmission rule was added etc. You make it sound as if no effort was made on this end to "compromise". A simple return phone call or e-mail on your part would've been nice and who knows maybe a "compromise" could've been reached.

BTW all the world wants to know when are YOU going to FINALLY make a decision on the G-S-C-A rules?
 

odell4o8

Member
I spoke to everyone who has raced the class since 03 and most of the potential new racers I know about. [quote turbobuick]
mr lyons,
I won tso in 03 runner up in 04. run tso in 05 and 06
that is at the G-S-C-A nats,
but as i am old and slo i dont count, because you never spoke to me about rules or anything else, and if i go to columbus or norwalk and the tso cars are all running 8.60 to 8,50 and faster, i can run q-16 good luck,
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
I spoke to everyone who has raced the class since 03 and most of the potential new racers I know about. [quote turbobuick]
mr lyons,
I won tso in 03 runner up in 04. run tso in 05 and 06
that is at the G-S-C-A nats,
but as i am old and slo i dont count, because you never spoke to me about rules or anything else, and if i go to columbus or norwalk and the tso cars are all running 8.60 to 8,50 and faster, i can run q-16 good luck,

Not true I would love to see you particapate in the point series.

07 TSO Points Series & Payouts - Page 2 - t6p.com - Turbo Buick Regal Resource

Post #22 I specifically asked you if you were interested in racing the point series You never replied. You also vioced your opinion on every thread concerning the issue that you want no changes and you are not interested in a point series. This is what I understood your position to be, if I'm wrong I apologize. Do you have a different view?
 

S2V6RACER

Banned
Sign me up!!

Chris, I posted on T6P on where to send my $$ in for the TSO point series. Give me a call or e-mail me when you get a chance.
 

Buicksx2

RCA: Home of the The Jack
Chris, I posted on T6P on where to send my $$ in for the TSO point series. Give me a call or e-mail me when you get a chance.


>>> I agree with Ted, I look forward to racing in the point series and thanks Chris for your efforts in making it happen.

Let me know when and where to send some money to on behalf of Rich's Auto and the JCC.
 
I am going to apologize up front, cause I am going to throw a couple ideas out there that might help out, and probably be WAY off base & sound like I am clueless on all this, cause I basically am :) I haven't been following the rules & opinions etc much at all, but Chris did contact me way back on chipping in to help on the proposed point series & I said I would. Now it seems skimming over a few posts that the points series isn't for all the races, and BG is doing it differently.

First, is there any way to actually include BG in the points series even if they want to go by different rules? Just have them apply for the BG race only? Then it's up to each specific racer to decide whether or not they want to change their car around to fit rules at different events (or make it so it fits them all to start with). That way southern racers won't have to make all the northern races to be competitive, and maybe more will enter the series??? Don't get me wrong, I hated adapting my car to fit the rules more than about anyone, that's why I stayed in brackets. BUT, don't see how eliminating the main race from the series all-together helps out anyone.

Secondly, what's the actual hangup?? Is it basically the liquid intercooler issue? How about a different (higher) weight penalty for BG event so they can at least race there? Me personally, I would rather stick another 100 lbs in the car vs have to run a new class & be away from all the people you usually run with at all the other events. Dave just told me it's also an issue with the club wanting to keep the cars as stock appearing as possible. I felt out of place with a 4" downpipe years ago, and now it's OK to run a 5"? Doesn't sound very stock appearing, course neither does a turbo that barely fits under the hood :)

My thought would be, you have several heads up turbo classes out there, why not let the fastest class have more freedom to see how fast they can push that little 6 :) Isn't it Turbo Street OUTLAW?? Looking at other organizations out there running similar classes/series, they leave the stock appearing stuff more to the outside of the car than under the hood. Seems like the rules here make it harder or impossible for the faster Buicks to race against other brands at other events & be competitive. Liquid intercoolers & turbo's/superchargers all over the place are commonplace out there anymore. Matter of fact, it's actually interesting to me to see where they can stick the turbo next, even got them at the rear of the cars too.

Just seems silly to force a few to go to a totally different class at BG, might lose them for good if they like the other class better! Plus, what pride can we get from running slower without the use of newer/different technology out there that is readily available and used by the non-Buick competition. I can see it shouldn't go buck wild for all the classes, but seems there should be a place to step between a heads up V-6 class and Q-16. What better place than the fastest V-6 heads up class, an "Outlaw" class??? Otherwise, might as well change the name to "Stock Appearing #3" or something.

Hope that helps & isn't too far out there & off topic and/or offensive to anyone, NOT my intentions. Just remember, just trying to be helpful & maybe spark an idea or something to help, please don't fry me too bad :) I figure there is always a way around stuff & anything can be fixed, but then again I saw Dave Englands 109 block :eek:

PS- Chris, will still do something for the series. Figuring that stuff out now on G-S-C-A board. Turns out they are still soliciting sponsorship dollars for all the NON-heads up racers, and all the RRA's are responsible for the heads up classes. That way we take advantage of ALL potential sponsors, and ALL the classes get covered & MORE PRIZE MONEY should be available for ALL!!! :biggrin: Looks like an AWESOME plan so far! I need to cover the BB/GS guys as well as the turbo guys, and have a plan of my own too. Being that the TSO class has SO MUCH sponsorship going already, I might support one of the "less fortunate" heads up classes that are behind on the bell curve. You guys got it goooood this year! :) Excellent job Cal & others putting it all together!!!

For anyone interested in overall payout details for the event:
Payout for 2007

Also seems you need to sponsor $200 minimum to get better announcements & print in the program & G-S-X-T-R-A, and be a $1000+ title sponsor to get the best announcements & perks. Under $200 is still appreciated & mentioned, just not as much I guess. Sounds fair, just wanted all to be aware. ANY suggestions, input, concerns, etc on payouts should be addressed on the G-S-C-A board (link above).
 

Buicksx2

RCA: Home of the The Jack
Paul,

Chris has done a great job putting together this point series and there was not a mutual agreement in the rules between the g-s-c-a and what Chris worked hard on for the point series.

BG will not be included in the point series this year, maybe next year, but IMO I wouldn't put my house on that either for 2008.

I for one am looking forward to racing in the point series and if all goes well plan on making 3 of the 4 races.

Hope to see you at the events.

Stay well
 

S2V6RACER

Banned
It is a shame that BG can't be part of the point series. What is interesting is that some (if not all) the racers that are BG legal will also be racing at the point series events. This would lead one to believe that these other racers are O.K. competing in "BG TSO" format against others with liquids and other "minor infractions".




No compromise on BG's part is a huge mistake IMHO.
 

D.W.

New Member
Paul,

Chris has done a great job putting together this point series and there was not a mutual agreement in the rules between the g-s-c-a and what Chris worked hard on for the point series.

BG will not be included in the point series this year, maybe next year, but IMO I wouldn't put my house on that either for 2008.

I for one am looking forward to racing in the point series and if all goes well plan on making 3 of the 4 races.




why only 3 of the 4 tso races? :confused:

D.W.
 

Buicksx2

RCA: Home of the The Jack
Paul,

Chris has done a great job putting together this point series and there was not a mutual agreement in the rules between the g-s-c-a and what Chris worked hard on for the point series.

BG will not be included in the point series this year, maybe next year, but IMO I wouldn't put my house on that either for 2008.

I for one am looking forward to racing in the point series and if all goes well plan on making 3 of the 4 races.




why only 3 of the 4 tso races? :confused:

D.W.


>>> Why the use of initials?:confused:
 
Paul,
In my opinion, this is the G S C A s way to strong arm the the owners of TSO cars to abide by their (outdated) rules or play elsewhere and that is EXACTLY what has happened. The points series SHOULD have definately included BG however, the old skool rules mandated by the club makes the cars that would be eligible to compete in BG perfect candidates to get SMOKED at any other venue. I cannot afford to build a car (or cars) to compete in one race ONLY. With the big money offered as a payout in BG and a CONFIRMED total of 5 GRAND in TSO alone ,plus a jacket and gift slip as well.Surely would have been nice if the guys in charge of making the rules could have persuaded those in charge mandating them to make some changes for the better of ALL.Times have changed, technology has changed (addresses too as evident by the postcard to my moms house) and attendence numbers have changed.
 

Buicksx2

RCA: Home of the The Jack
Paul,
In my opinion, this is the G S C A s way to strong arm the the owners of TSO cars to abide by their (outdated) rules or play elsewhere and that is EXACTLY what has happened. The points series SHOULD have definately included BG however, the old skool rules mandated by the club makes the cars that would be eligible to compete in BG perfect candidates to get SMOKED at any other venue. I cannot afford to build a car (or cars) to compete in one race ONLY. With the big money offered as a payout in BG and a CONFIRMED total of 5 GRAND in TSO alone ,plus a jacket and gift slip as well.Surely would have been nice if the guys in charge of making the rules could have persuaded those in charge mandating them to make some changes for the better of ALL.Times have changed, technology has changed (addresses too as evident by the postcard to my moms house) and attendence numbers have changed.

>>> I echo Bill's comments and like Bill I too got postcards sent to my home, must be something about Bill and I that makes people send out postcards, brings out the best in them I suppose.
 

Otto J

Well-Known Member
It not like We didnt work hard on the BG rules for years to get were they are.
How many more cars plan on attending point series events that dont fall into BG rules?
 
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