TSM at BPG

[scot w.]

Lack of involvement from the leadership is hurting this class like it or not.

If it is going to continue, serious changes need to be looked at...

VERY TRUE! and with that said let's stand back and take a look at just how many places TSM is held.

1) Bowling Green
2) Reynolds
3) Norwalk
4) BPG
5) Oceola

I doubt that any more TSM races will be held at Cicil or Noble so might as well count them places out.

I know It is actually pretty hard for One RRA to attend all of these races by himself So from the looks of these places it might be best to have (TWO) RRA's, One from the south area that can attend the southern races and one from the north area to attend the northern races. (I'm not talking about me ) This way the duties of the RRA is split up and cuts down on travels, expense, time off.


I seen the TSM website and it hasn't been up dated since 2008 with basicly NO news of points and wins since then. That should be updated after EVERY TSM RACE! I myself would be more than happy to donate my time to run the TSM points website and keep it up to date AFTER "EVERY" TSM RACE!

Make 2 set's of Turbo Plugs & Ring's (One for Each RRA) the plugs right now are not actually correct so technically they need to be re-done anyway.

These are just some idea's that would make the TSM class Grow rather than slip away.


Sponsors? Don't know who is actually in charge to gather sponsors for bettering the payout but the sponsors have pretty much not changed in the last few years and there really isn't much on promotion either other than One thread on a buick board. This area would also help the TSM class grow. In my eye's something NEW needs to happen in several areas of each buick event in order to make them ALL continue to Grow for years to come and that involves the people who are Involved!! The two things people go to ANY event are KILLER RACING! & LOT'S of VENDORS!

* Spectators attend to See the racing. Period! (Without that there would be no events, There might as well be swap meets in fairgrounds!!!
* Racers attend to race and go for a pay out. Period! (With LOW pay out, people are Less likely to waste there time dragging their stuff all the way across country to race)..
* Vendors attend to Sell products. Period! (Take the amount of the Gas, Entry fee's, Motel, Food & drink) it takes to show up to an event Now you have to make Over that in order to finally start to make a profit so the costs to vendors needs to be low/lower in order to make it more tempting to attend

I will be more than happy to help out where I can and would be more than happy to take over the TSM web site and keep it up to date for all the racers.


SW.

 

[Scott231]

So you agree we made the right call...and should have re-run the final and the fact that Phil did not show...Jason won the TSM class...

If everything you/others have told me, I would agree. I still am puzzled why the lights worked just fine for Phil and not Jason. It's hard to see in the video but it looks like Jason's brother is pulling him into the lanes. If a racer pulls into a lane, he is accepting what happens...just like pulling in during a bracket race and the time on the ET clock has the wrong dial-in.

One more question - who was the mysterious "proxy" that informed the BPG/NTR of Phil's intention?

 

[BadAssGN]

Why would people be asking that? That is one of the Most exciting classes to watch and packs the stands at BG!

Just can't understand why people would ask that it not be run... Rediculous!

A Buick event without TSM would be like a Buffet with no Food.

I find myself dropping what i am doing everytime they call the heads up classes to the Lanes..

 

[Scott231]

Actually, I've been contacted by the Noble event people and they do want TSM back in 2010.

TSM Point Series director include myself (Chicago), Steve Sullivan (Carolinas) and Phil McGloin (Ohio), but I'll make a guess that Phil is done. :frown:

Multiple sets of rings/plugs do no good if someone cannot be there.

To be a competitive TSM racer, you have to build a pretty dedicated car and that is expensive. Someone could set up a thread/poll to find out why they are not running TSM. I can provide the resasons for them to choose from. :wink:

 

[gbsean]

proxy was someone from Phils crew...have no idea who he was...

 

[scot w.]

Actually, I've been contacted by the Noble event people and they do want TSM back in 2010.

TSM Point Series director include myself (Chicago), Steve Sullivan (Carolinas) and Phil McGloin (Ohio), but I'll make a guess that Phil is done. :frown:

Multiple sets of rings/plugs do no good if someone cannot be there.

To be a competitive TSM racer, you have to build a pretty dedicated car and that is expensive. Someone could set up a thread/poll to find out why they are not running TSM. I can provide the resasons for them to choose from. :wink:

Yeah your right No matter if there is 1 set or 10 set's, If there is No RRA at each race then what good are they?.. So to actually make Each TSM race "OFFICIAL" shouldn't an RRA and the Plug's/Ring's be present??

Scott that makes that 6 TSM races for 2010 and this is the first time Iv'e heard mention of Steve Sullivan & Phil as RRA's for TSM.. Shouldn
't RRA's for a certain class be neutral and NOT race in that class?

In my eye's these episodes with racers that has been happening at these events year after year could be avoided with a RRA actually being there to diffuse the issue before it ensues in a face to face confrontation between the racers. The RRA is a neutral party there to enforce the class rules, Help coordinate their class to run smooth at the event, Gather sponsors and promote the class, inform the racers when it's time to go up, time they have left so on and so on, jump in and be the neutral party in solving issues/disputes if they arise.

 

[Slow91z]

In my eye's these episodes with racers that has been happening at these events year after year could be avoided with a RRA actually being there to diffuse the issue before it ensues in a face to face confrontation between the racers.

I think I need clarification...To what "episodes" are you referring??

 

[scot w.]

I think I need clarification...To what "episodes" are you referring??

Were you just at BPG? If so, then you are 100% aware of what I'm referring to and if you were not there then You can ask one of the others that were there to inform you as to what ensued. I personally do not wish to re-hash the episode all over again and I'm sure the racers wished that I didn't as well..

As far as the other "episodes" that I speak of I'm sure those involved wouldn't want there names and episode brought back up either.


SW.

 

[KevinB]

Yeah your right No matter if there is 1 set or 10 set's, If there is No RRA at each race then what good are they?.. So to actually make Each TSM race "OFFICIAL" shouldn't an RRA and the Plug's/Ring's be present??

Scott that makes that 6 TSM races for 2010 and this is the first time Iv'e heard mention of Steve Sullivan & Phil as RRA's for TSM.. Shouldn
't RRA's for a certain class be neutral and NOT race in that class?

In my eye's these episodes with racers that has been happening at these events year after year could be avoided with a RRA actually being there to diffuse the issue before it ensues in a face to face confrontation between the racers. The RRA is a neutral party there to enforce the class rules, Help coordinate their class to run smooth at the event, Gather sponsors and promote the class, inform the racers when it's time to go up, time they have left so on and so on, jump in and be the neutral party in solving issues/disputes if they arise.

I guess you don't pay attention much to the tsm news because it was posted awhile ago TSM Directors - t6p.com - Turbo Buick Regal Resource

I too, would like to know the other "episodes". We had a great points series setup at one time but all the accusations towards the guy helping out screwed that one up.







I don't see what the witch hunt over Scott S is about. Without Scott and Lonnie, there would not be a tsm. Scott travels to the races for free, doesn't make any money off it, doesn't charge an extra fee to race a tsm race, etc.. He is not the reason the class is dying. Maybe it's the fact that the economy sucks for most right now and these cars are not exactly the cheapest to build/maintain. Been there, done that. What would have been the difference if Scott was there? Still would have had one happy and another mad racer no matter which way the decision went. I'm not sure if the turbo rings were there since I no longer race this class (who cares if the plug was there since it doesn't mean anything anymore anyways.)

 

[gbsean]

I guess what I am trying to say that if there was an impartial RRA then the NTR and BPG would not have to make the call as to what to do...the impartial RRA could of made that decision....again if it was to split the points and money..or re-race...or declare a winner on the spot...in talking to numerous people we (the BPG and NTR) made the right call...if a impartial RRA was there that decision would of been final and objections could of been filed with him/her...

In response as to why the objections to TSM next year is to avoid this situation again,,,or have something written in the TSM rules that the host track/event organizers have the final say in track issues....this situation was unique and an unbiased RRA could of made a call...just something to think about for upcoming events....again unless I am voted out TSM is welcome to BPG next year as long as we have a non-competing TSM RRA...

 

[scot w.]

I guess what I am trying to say that if there was an impartial RRA then the NTR and BPG would not have to make the call as to what to do...the impartial RRA could of made that decision....again if it was to split the points and money..or re-race...or declare a winner on the spot...in talking to numerous people we (the BPG and NTR) made the right call...if a impartial RRA was there that decision would of been final and objections could of been filed with him/her...

In response as to why the objections to TSM next year is to avoid this situation again,,,or have something written in the TSM rules that the host track/event organizers have the final say in track issues....this situation was unique and an unbiased RRA could of made a call...just something to think about for upcoming events....again unless I am voted out TSM is welcome to BPG next year as long as we have a non-competing TSM RRA...

Sean thanks for stepping in and clearing this up for some. This is exactly what I was trying to get at but some seem to twist stuff into their thinking... Never once was this a "Witch Hunt" towards Scott at all, Just pointing out the Problem areas in efforts to make them better. Looks like it's also obvious to others as well... lol

And Kevin, If those guy's are the other RRA's then how come no one stepped up as the TSM RRA at BPG? (Maybe because he also races in TSM?) Conflict of interest??

Doesn't Sully also run TSM? Wouldn't that also be a Conflict of Interest?


Then why between 4 guy's can't they have a RRA at all the TSM event's? I already know it's out of there pocket but isn't that what they signed up for and agreed to do? Yeah there is responsibility that comes with it and I'm sure they were already aware of that before they Agreed to do it. So that now brings us back to the basic's (not pointed at anyone!!) Why isn't there an official RRA at more than one event per year? That's just a simple question Kevin, Not a "Witch hunt for a single person".. lol

I'm done here and my offer still stands to design and run a new BUICK racing Points web site if anyone is interested...

Peace!

 

[Slow91z]

Were you just at BPG? If so, then you are 100% aware of what I'm referring to and if you were not there then You can ask one of the others that were there to inform you as to what ensued. I personally do not wish to re-hash the episode all over again and I'm sure the racers wished that I didn't as well..

As far as the other "episodes" that I speak of I'm sure those involved wouldn't want there names and episode brought back up either.


SW.

I was there and that qualifies as an episode for sure, but to my knowledge it's the only one, definitely the only one since I have been going to the races, but I admit I haven't been going half as long as most of the people I see at the these events...Hell if we were racing circle track this would happen like every race...In any competitive sport there are going to be disagreements, and when you are dealing with competitive people those disagreements can get heated.

Not saying it's good, or right or whatever, but sometimes it happens...It doesn't matter if who's in charge, a decision was made and not everyone was happy about it, but lets not make it into something bigger than it is...What happened in that trailer was between the people in that trailer and shouldn't affect the way races are run.

JMO

 

[gbsean]

I was there and that qualifies as an episode for sure, but to my knowledge it's the only one, definitely the only one since I have been going to the races, but I admit I haven't been going half as long as most of the people I see at the these events...Hell if we were racing circle track this would happen like every race...In any competitive sport there are going to be disagreements, and when you are dealing with competitive people those disagreements can get heated.

Not saying it's good, or right or whatever, but sometimes it happens...It doesn't matter if who's in charge, a decision was made and not everyone was happy about it, but lets not make it into something bigger than it is...What happened in that trailer was between the people in that trailer and shouldn't affect the way races are run.

JMO

but if an impartial RRA was there it would not have happened IMHO...that is the point I am getting at...there would be no disagreement as a TSM Rep would of made the call

 

[scot w.]

but if an impartial rra was there it would not have happened imho...that is the point i am getting at...there would be no disagreement as a tsm rep would of made the call

Exactly!!!

 

[Slow91z]

but if an impartial RRA was there it would not have happened IMHO...that is the point I am getting at...there would be no disagreement as a TSM Rep would of made the call

I disagree...Assuming the right call was made (and from what I saw it was) then the same people would have been unhappy.

I could be wrong, but I know if I don't like a decision then it doesn't matter who tells me what it is, I'm still unhappy.

Anyway I don't see how this was a TSM RRA decision...This was something that had to do with the race itself, not the cars.

 

[gbsean]

but the BPG and NTR would not have to shoulder the blame,,,remember we hosted the TSM point series race....TSM had total control...of everything except the schedule...so we all agree that we BPG made the right call and all the pm's and e-mails and phone calls can stop....lol....

 

[Slow91z]

but the BPG and NTR would not have to shoulder the blame,,,remember we hosted the TSM point series race....TSM had total control...of everything except the schedule...so we all agree that we BPG made the right call and all the pm's and e-mails and phone calls can stop....lol....

Frankly I think NTR shoulder some of the blame...Truthfully the starter should have probably held the cars until the smoke cleared, but crap like this happens in racing.

All comments are strictly my opinion of what I saw from the concession stand! :biggrin:

 

[V8Assassin]

There have been some good points and issues that need to be discussed brought up in this thread. I, for one, and glad to see an open discussion of what is going on. Those involved all love TSM and want it to continue for a very long time.

I do believe enough has been said and it is now time for the powers that be to step back and discuss these topics in a private setting. All of the issues brought up here need to be discussed and plans for next year should start now, however it's time to put the egos aside and come together with an open/honest discussion between those afore mentioned powers.

 

[gbsean]

agreed...I have made open my issues and hope they are resolved tor the 2011 t-party bash which highlight the turbo cars...

 

[BadAssGN]

Frankly I think NTR shoulder some of the blame...Truthfully the starter should have probably held the cars until the smoke cleared, but crap like this happens in racing.

All comments are strictly my opinion of what I saw from the concession stand! :biggrin:

I made this point earlier, But, if there are crew members bringing the car up to the line the Starter Wont hold the cars.

If that were the case and the crew member staged the car in the smoke
Then they would live with the Red Eye Loss....

IMHO

Its not alway cut and dry, this was a very difficult decision so I can see Sean's point in not wanting to make the call.