Strange surge over 20psi...

we4Mateo

Double you eee what?
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
I think it's the tranny but looking for opinions. At anything below 20psi, all is well. At over 20psi, and only in 3rd and 4th, I get a weird "surge" that was never present a month or so ago. I have verified fuel pressure rises appropriately with boost. I do see a weird 1/2 psi "blip" in the fuel pressure when the surge occurs, but otherwise pressure is solid, so I believe the blip happens as a result of the surge and the changing load on the engine. I don't have a powerlogger so I can't see the rpm changes while it's happening, but it rises in rpm slightly then starts pulling hard again, and it makes me think the tranny is starting to slip. I also see a small blip on my wideband, but again, I think this is the result of the fuel pressure blip as a result of the surge. Reason I ask is that my tranny guy states his failures from worn clutches have always been poor shifting and lack of gear engagement and not necessarily surging after the shift occurs. I also make 1/2 the power he shoots for so my failures are less dramatic.

A little history, trans build has almost 45k miles and probably 150 passes or even close to 200 maybe. My tcc solenoid recently failed and was sticking when hot. I still drove the car a couple of weeks like that and it took a few hard lockups. Nothing compared to what I put it through at wot at the track though. I tried to let it shift as softly as possible while it was acting up, but it did make a few funny mechanical sounds I've never heard before. This was with TC locked at very low rpm which I never usually experience.

Questions: Did I hurt anything driving it around with the wonky tcc solenoid? Can worn clutches cause a surge like this at over 20psi, but still be fine below that and shift perfectly? What else should I be checking? I thought injector harness or injector itself, but I would think heat and not just a load of 20psi or more would still cause issue. Same with ignition, I would think heat more so than just 20psi would cause issue; especially with 25psi being great in 1st and 2nd but 20psi or more in 3rd and 4th and then I get the minor surge. I haven't had a chance yet to attempt a wot lock in 3rd to see if it holds or not. Immediately prior to this issue arrising, I gave a ride to a guy, in Mexico of course, and we were doing all of 130mph in 4th gear, TC NOT locked mind you, but I know putting the power through 4th is a long term no no. I've done it for years though and maybe now it's finally just tired. I know 4th can only hold like 5 clutches or something. Let me know your thoughts.
 
A refresh is not a major expense, but I don't want to do it if it's not needed.
 
Unless it's in the early stages of decline, I would imagine there would be some evidence in the trans pan, burnt fluid, stopped up p/u screen, etc. Can you check shift pressures? May give you some clue.(?)
 
I gave a ride to a guy, in Mexico of course, and we were doing all of 130mph in 4th gear, TC NOT locked mind you, but I know putting the power through 4th is a long term no no. I've done it for years though and maybe now it's finally just tired. I know 4th can only hold like 5 clutches or something. Let me know your thoughts.

This only works if you tell him "here, hold my beer and watch this". lol

Most I know of build with just an additional third clutch in the overdrive but this give 50% more holding power over the stock two, but there are hp frictions that can be installed.

Fluid nice n red, and not burnt?
 
This only works if you tell him "here, hold my beer and watch this". lol

Most I know of build with just an additional third clutch in the overdrive but this give 50% more holding power over the stock two, but there are hp frictions that can be installed.

Fluid nice n red, and not burnt?

Fluid is good and red and smells awful but not burnt. There was some clutch debris in the pan when we dropped it for the tcc solenoid. We thought it was from locking the tc at wot so much but maybe it's from my 4th gear pack. I should check the pressures though and make sure it's not a pump. It def still shifts great at part throttle and full throttle so I think the pump must be getting it done still.

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...Most I know of build with just an additional third clutch in the overdrive but this give 50% more holding power over the stock two, but there are hp frictions that can be installed...


Good to know. I may be mistaken. I know there are as many as can fit. I thought stock was three and we went to five, but you're most likely correct. My memory is getting bad these days.
 
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/122a.gif
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Ive never read or heasrd of anyone putting five clutches in the od but I guess anything is possible. From my reading most cut .070-.080 off the apply piston and just add one additional. See in row B there are a steel a clutch two steels back to back, another clutch and the steel. Most cut and put one in between the back to back clutches from my studies. I didn't on mine but I will if I find od clutches have probs for me.
 
but I know putting the power through 4th is a long term no no. I've done it for years though and maybe now it's finally just tired. I know 4th can only hold like 5 clutches or something. Let me know your thoughts.

The standard in most builds is to cut the 4th piston to make room for an additional clutch for a total of 3. I would not be afraid to put power to 4th as it is a large clutch and it is stacked on with direct. I have customers that use 4th under power with no issues. If direct is slipping, 4th will not survive.
 
The standard in most builds is to cut the 4th piston to make room for an additional clutch for a total of 3. I would not be afraid to put power to 4th as it is a large clutch and it is stacked on with direct. I have customers that use 4th under power with no issues. If direct is slipping, 4th will not survive.

If the directs are getting bad too, would that explain why it only does it in 3rd and 4th when good power is sent through it?

Thank you!
 
You never know what you're getting into. Look at the pics. The owner wanted a converter swap, "shift kit" and the leak fixed. I don't think anything would have helped. Band and drum wasted, direct burned, forward had some hot spotting on the steels, OD hot spotted and showing slip on the clutches as well. This had a partial trans-go shift kit in it which I backed out and also replaced the plate. The pressure regulator was updated and hole sizes updated. Added a clutch to OD. I resurfaced the drum and now it's a totally different animal. The funny thing is there was hardly anything in the pan and the oil didn't smell like it would be this bad. It definitely had the pan off a couple times prior to me getting it.
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Wow, those are some ugly pix. Just goes to show what can happen if things are left and not inspected.
That pump bushing looks real bad, not that the rest is any better. Not that I have any leg to stand on other than I know what the new stuff looks like and that doesn't look new.
I do have a set of directs that is a cylinder. Got a little hot.

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Wow, those are some ugly pix. Just goes to show what can happen if things are left and not inspected.
That pump bushing looks real bad, not that the rest is any better. Not that I have any leg to stand on other than I know what the new stuff looks like and that doesn't look new.
I do have a set of directs that is a cylinder. Got a little hot.

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No part of that pump was re used.
 
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