Did anyone see the article in this months HOT ROD magazine? It was a pretty good multi-page article on working out some bugs in an 87 GN. The thing that got me was the slamming of the RJC powerplate as a power robbing mistake. Does anyone have any data to show that what they say is or is not accurate? Not looking to cause an uproar just want some more in depth info backed by some data.
RJC powerplate and the Recent HOT ROD article on the GN
- Thread starter DOUGGN
- Start date
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
First of all my personal opinion is that the entire article does a great dis-service to the Grand National image, and to put it bluntly it contains lots of inaccurate information as most of us know you do not have to spend $10K to achieve those HP levels. [The $6K+ figure was parts, labor - you guess that number?]
But the topic here is the RJC power plate "a power robbing mistake"?
Many people who voice their opinion as fact, and also do not quantify their comments for the application, but make blanket statements, Dan White has done just this in that article. How many GN's run 9' and 10's on stock computers?
The initial track testing of the RJC Power Plate was done at the annual Buick event in Bowling Green when it was introduced many years ago.
The testing was done a project GN build-up to evaluate added performance with various up-grade parts to obtain detailed performance data under controlled conditions.
The data was compiled by Ken Moser who also furnished the lap top and Turbo-Link software, and lots of expertise.
We first established the stock baseline performance numbers of the project GN, and as we added parts each one was tested at least 2 track runs recording E.T. and MPH.
The only performance numbers etched in my brain are the ones for the PP.
The before and after runs showed .2 ths increase in E.T. and 2 MPH difference and of course the larger number is after.
It took a few runs to baseline the stock car as we wanted to determine the exact and highest boost number w/o any knock retard.
It also took a few runs to then determine how much we could increase boost before knock after various parts were added.
Ken and I did this over 2 mornings consecutive mornings at Beech Bend Raceway and averaged these numbers for the PP as well as for each other added items like a TA-49 turbo, Dut neck IC, TH DP, cold air intake and more.
I do remember many of these details because had the "fun job" of doing most of the parts changing, and all of the track testing!
This testing results were also documented in the GSXTRA newsletter, but even though I clearly remember the above details, the exact year is lost somewhere in my gray matter, but it was when Jason introduced the RJC PP!
My final comment is that at higher performance levels the PP could be a restriction, but the Hot Rod GN did get to the level.
I am suprised that no one has made a comment that replacing a $2 plenum gasket would have gone a long way is solving most of the issues on that GN build up!
First of all my personal opinion is that the entire article does a great dis-service to the Grand National image, and to put it bluntly it contains lots of inaccurate information as most of us know you do not have to spend $10K to achieve those HP levels. [The $6K+ figure was parts, labor - you guess that number?]
But the topic here is the RJC power plate "a power robbing mistake"?
Many people who voice their opinion as fact, and also do not quantify their comments for the application, but make blanket statements, Dan White has done just this in that article. How many GN's run 9' and 10's on stock computers?
The initial track testing of the RJC Power Plate was done at the annual Buick event in Bowling Green when it was introduced many years ago.
The testing was done a project GN build-up to evaluate added performance with various up-grade parts to obtain detailed performance data under controlled conditions.
The data was compiled by Ken Moser who also furnished the lap top and Turbo-Link software, and lots of expertise.
We first established the stock baseline performance numbers of the project GN, and as we added parts each one was tested at least 2 track runs recording E.T. and MPH.
The only performance numbers etched in my brain are the ones for the PP.
The before and after runs showed .2 ths increase in E.T. and 2 MPH difference and of course the larger number is after.
It took a few runs to baseline the stock car as we wanted to determine the exact and highest boost number w/o any knock retard.
It also took a few runs to then determine how much we could increase boost before knock after various parts were added.
Ken and I did this over 2 mornings consecutive mornings at Beech Bend Raceway and averaged these numbers for the PP as well as for each other added items like a TA-49 turbo, Dut neck IC, TH DP, cold air intake and more.
I do remember many of these details because had the "fun job" of doing most of the parts changing, and all of the track testing!
This testing results were also documented in the GSXTRA newsletter, but even though I clearly remember the above details, the exact year is lost somewhere in my gray matter, but it was when Jason introduced the RJC PP!
My final comment is that at higher performance levels the PP could be a restriction, but the Hot Rod GN did get to the level.
I am suprised that no one has made a comment that replacing a $2 plenum gasket would have gone a long way is solving most of the issues on that GN build up!
That is what I was looking for! I am a relative newbie compared to alot of the guys on this board and was just looking for some data. I am running a powerplate on my car. Is there anyone that has access to the report that Nick is referring to? Are old issues of the GSXtra available somewhere?
First of all my personal opinion is that the entire article does a great dis-service to the Grand National image, and to put it bluntly it contains lots of inaccurate information as most of us know you do not have to spend $10K to achieve those HP levels. [The $6K+ figure was parts, labor - you guess that number?]
But the topic here is the RJC power plate "a power robbing mistake"?
Many people who voice their opinion as fact, and also do not quantify their comments for the application, but make blanket statements, Dan White has done just this in that article. How many GN's run 9' and 10's on stock computers?
The initial track testing of the RJC Power Plate was done at the annual Buick event in Bowling Green when it was introduced many years ago.
The testing was done a project GN build-up to evaluate added performance with various up-grade parts to obtain detailed performance data under controlled conditions.
The data was compiled by Ken Moser who also furnished the lap top and Turbo-Link software, and lots of expertise.
We first established the stock baseline performance numbers of the project GN, and as we added parts each one was tested at least 2 track runs recording E.T. and MPH.
The only performance numbers etched in my brain are the ones for the PP.
The before and after runs showed .2 ths increase in E.T. and 2 MPH difference and of course the larger number is after.
It took a few runs to baseline the stock car as we wanted to determine the exact and highest boost number w/o any knock retard.
It also took a few runs to then determine how much we could increase boost before knock after various parts were added.
Ken and I did this over 2 mornings consecutive mornings at Beech Bend Raceway and averaged these numbers for the PP as well as for each other added items like a TA-49 turbo, Dut neck IC, TH DP, cold air intake and more.
I do remember many of these details because had the "fun job" of doing most of the parts changing, and all of the track testing!
This testing results were also documented in the GSXTRA newsletter, but even though I clearly remember the above details, the exact year is lost somewhere in my gray matter, but it was when Jason introduced the RJC PP!
My final comment is that at higher performance levels the PP could be a restriction, but the Hot Rod GN did get to the level.
I am suprised that no one has made a comment that replacing a $2 plenum gasket would have gone a long way is solving most of the issues on that GN build up!
Based on the op's sig, I doubt its a restriction, which led to my initial post. I doubt putting a fast on a mostly stock car well do it wonders. I mean, you probably don't need the pp if you can control timing and fuel per cylinder knowing the differences between each.
I have been using the power plate for years. When I first put it on I immediately noticed a difference in the cars over all performance. My only problem with the power play is that it should come with the proper bolts to attach the upper plenum The stock bolts are too short and tend to strip The threads from the manifold. They should at least mention that for anyone installing the power plate. Other than that I love it and definitely believe in it. RJC products are great!
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Mike Licht
I was here first
- Joined
- May 23, 2001
The Hemco is a great product, I have one on my car. It is not however even close to what was stated in the article. Power plate is a useful item IMO it is not perfect for every application but it certainly does have a place and as far as restriction? Well the amount is very small, if any, it depends on your test method, but that only shows up with more airflow than 99.9% of folks here will ever see so for them there is none.
Don't believe the hype folks, the source is not very credible, Jason, Nick, Ken and others are far better sources of accurate and trusted info.
Don't believe the hype folks, the source is not very credible, Jason, Nick, Ken and others are far better sources of accurate and trusted info.
Bescurred
BOOSTED SHAMU v2.0
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2001
I remember being at the GS nationals when Jason introduced the PP. I know it wasnt super scientific, the set up RJC had but they hooked two blowers up to the throttle body of the 86/87 with the doghouse and intake attached. He started both up, one with the PP and one without. Putting my hands under both I could feel the difference!
TurboTnZ06
Go on red!
- Joined
- May 7, 2002
I added an RJC PP back in the day. No boost changes after install. So not a restriction. I then was able to add 1 more psi boost on pump gas only tune without KR.
RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
Without looking it may be that they are anti-hop bars. Can't recall who makes them (Lakewood?), but they raise the back of the upper arms off the punkin some. This changes the rear geometry to reduce or eliminate rear axle hop.
RemoveBeforeFlight
RemoveBeforeFlight
The Radius Kid
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2002
Never trust a keyboard jockey to do quantifiable testing....or be objective.
The Plate does add a little flow restriction by nature of it's function.
It has to for airflow redirection .... the natural tendency for airflow in that plenum is towards the rear and since #6 stands alone back there,guess which cylinder gets the most air and runs the leanest?
I've said it before and I'll say it again ;
When you have balanced airflow to each cylinder and hopefully fuel,you should get balanced power.
That's synergy and when that happens the sum can equal more than the total of the parts.
To beat the Plate would take lots of specialized testing and work.
Good luck with that.
In summation,you'll find that you would probably benefit more with having one than not.
It is amazing that someone would nay say such an effective and reasonably priced idea out of hand.
BTW: there was a thread years ago about this and I believe Dave Bamford posted some multi-channel EGT numbers that showed it seemed to work pretty well on his engine .... of course he was only running nines with a stock block at the time.
Mackinblack007
Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2002
Am I reading this right, it said in the article that these numb nuts turned the boost up to 20 on pump gas, and made dyno tunes with knock? why would you do that? then they added in some 110! why potentially hurt somebodys car? the article makes them seem like some turbobuick guru's, id love to have seen a few guys on here get ahold of that car.
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