RJC Boost Controller

G

GrndNatnl

Regal of the Dark Order
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Anyone have good luck with the RJC boost controller on a basically stock setup car? Does it eliminate boost spike at all?

I'm still having bad boost spike. If I nail the throttle, it jumps to ~ 20 psi more ot less, before it settles to where I have it set at. (Currently 17 psi, 18 w/ cutout open...) I'm using the stock setup with a new wastegate solenoid. I like it this way because it spools fast. If I just loop the compressor directly to the actuator, the boost is WAY more stable, but the spoolup lag is unbearable. (Because of the constant pressure to the actuator).

I was looking at the RJC controller that goes in the boost lines. It eliminates the usage of the solenoid and just goes between the compressor and the actuator, correct? How fine is the adjustability? Reduce spike?

Any feedback appreciated. I'm running stock turbo & I/C.
 
I use a similar product and find the boost control to be very good, but I have to ask you some questions - what is causing your boost spike?

Have you opened up the hole in the turbine cover? If so, to what diameter?

Are you using the stock wastegate solenoid valve, boost lines, plastic elbow and plastic Y? Are they original, or have they been replaced.

Are you using the stock wastegate actuator? Is it original, or has it been replaced? Is it adjustable? Homemade adjustable or factory adjustable? Is it a HD actuator?

What kind of chip are you using?
 
you must have your wastegate set = to or above the boost the Grainger is set at....once it opens, your wastegate controls the boost........if the Grainger is set to 20 and the wastegate set to 15, you will sure get a spike when the Grainger opens........if your wastegate is set to 20 and the Grainger at 15, you have defeated the purpose of the Grainger since pressure will push on the wastegate before it opens

the Grainger cannot "control" boost...it is either open or closed and that is all......ultimate boost control is still the wastegate spring (or solenoid if you are using one)

these kinds of devices are best used to aid spool up because no pressure is allowed to move the wastegate until the preset pressure is met....they are not intended to maintain or control boost
 
Originally posted by azgn
you must have your wastegate set = to or above the boost the Grainger is set at....once it opens, your wastegate controls the boost........if the Grainger is set to 20 and the wastegate set to 15, you will sure get a spike when the Grainger opens........if your wastegate is set to 20 and the Grainger at 15, you have defeated the purpose of the Grainger since pressure will push on the wastegate before it opens

the Grainger cannot "control" boost...it is either open or closed and that is all......ultimate boost control is still the wastegate spring (or solenoid if you are using one)

these kinds of devices are best used to aid spool up because no pressure is allowed to move the wastegate until the preset pressure is met....they are not intended to maintain or control boost
Click to expand...

When i bought the graiger from DC he stated that the wastegate should be set at stock level boost which is 15 psi and that the graiger should be set at whatever level u want it to be, now ur saying that in order to control boost spike you should have them both set at the same level, doesn't that defeat the porpouse of having a graiger valve at all, anybody can shine some light into this, i will have to agree with opening the hole to the turbo to match the puck that will eliminate some boost spike but never heard of matching the wastegate and grainger valve at the same boost levels to eliminate spike...
 
if your valve has a "bleeder" hole in it, we are not talking about the same device.........

the one Jason sells is either open or closed, cannot bleed off pressure once open, thus the wastegate will control

sorry if I confused you:)
 
Ideally, where would be the best place to insert a normal bleeder/bleed-off valve:

- In place of the WG solenoid? (Looped)

- In line with the solenoid?

- Between the compressor and solenoid & actuator?

- In line with the actuator?

- Does it matter? How about for in-car mounting?

My experience with fiddling with a bleeder created even more spike, and unstable boost levels. Anyone have any insight or advice on this? I had it both in place of the solenoid, and tried it in line with the solenoid.

My wastegate puck is stock size. It's a stock turbo, and the WG hole on the turbine housing is NOT ported or anything. Wouldnt porting it and making it a little larger help reduce spike by allowing the wastegate to flow and dump faster before the spike occurs?

The boost lines have been replaced not very long ago, and are in great shape with no leaks. They are from a vendor and has the proper Y-fitting (plastic though) with the orifice in it. Not home-rigged. Right now I'm using the stock setup boost control, using the solenoid. I adjust boost by the adjustable actuator rod. It's a newer stock replacment unit. My old stocker was worn out. The spring was very weak and it wouldnt allow the car to build hardly any boost.

As for chip, I'm running a TurboTweak / Eric Marshall street chip for 93 octane. And it rocks!

Theres the details. Let me know what ya think.
 
let me clarify this a little. the boost controler that we sell is similar to a grainger valve but has a few differences that make it work correctly. one is an orficed bleader that bleads the pressure out of the line once it has pased the controller. so Woody's statement above is not true.

In most cases boost creep is caused from the waste gate rod being shortened to the point that it's travel is limited and it can't open fully. That is why the generally higher boost you run the more creep you have.

Ours is very effective at controling boost spike and creep. This is how we set it up for maximum control. the controler we have simply blocks the boost pressure until the amount it is adjusted to. the wastegate rod is set so you have to pull it out about 1/8" fo hook it on the waste gate actuator pin. this is adequate enough to keep the exhaust back pressure from "blowing" the puck open. But still will allow the wastegate puck to open fully. This is all the adjustment that needs to be done with the waste gate rod. All adjustments from then on are done at the controller.
for increased boost you simply add more preload to the spring. this increases the pressure it takes to lift the ball off the seat and allow pressure past it. Once the boost passes the controller it opens the wastegate without spiking. Once the controller closes and blocks the boost pressure from going to the actuator the actuator closes because the pressure in the line is blead off out the bleeder orfice. This orfice is has to be a specific size in order to work right. once you are at the set boost level the controller maintains this boost pressure by opening and closing the actuator. The speed at which the controler reacts is critical. This is why simple grainger valves do not work correctly. their ball material is steel and does not react quick enough. Ours has a light weight ceramic ball to ensure the quickest response and that the controller works right. This is the most expensive part of our controller.

With our controller you will see quicker spool up because the wastegate puck is completely closed until the controller opens it. It will controll spikes and creep by being able to open the waste gate puck fully. You really have the best of both worlds. That is why i run it on my car. Sure the electronic boost controllers will have some advantages over ours but they cost 20 times as much.

Any questions?
 
What Jace said

I don't have anything to add to what Jace said about its function, but want to give my endorsement (for what that's worth) to his controller.. I have a Innovative boost controller on my car with the stock style actuator and in 40 or so passes have yet to get it to work correctly with this setup.. I have run my best times to date using the unit I got from Jace at the Nat's and it works just as he says. My boost fluctuates slightly on the data log (several samples per second, normal valve opening and closing) through out the pass but I get no creep or spikes. His controller flat works that is the bottom line. I have been 9.9 @ 139 with it... Buy one it works.. Dave
 
so what you are saying Jace, is your controller lets less pressure thru to the wastgate actuator for a given boost level?

That being the case, forget everything I said:D
 
ASGN, I don't really know what you are asking but let me explain a little more. If you run a vacuum line direct from the compressor side of the turbo to the waste gate actuator and set the rod at 1/8" preload as described above. This arrangement gives you lets say 10# of boost. My controller can't be adjusted to lower the boost any more than this only raise it. If you then install my contoller and set it for 11# of boost it will keep the waste gate completely closed until 11# then it lets that full 11# of boost through to the wastegate to maintain that 11# if it drops below 11# then the controller does not let any boost through to the actuator the actuator closes and the boost increases back to 11#. Now if you take this 11# figure in my example and put 25# in it's place it works exacty the same. and the boost maintains at 25#.
 
so what the controller is actually doing is metering the amount of boost allowed to push against the actuator, right?

otherwise, if 25 lbs of boost were allowed thru the controller, the 11 lb actuator would just blow open...

clear as mud?
 
yes the boost controller controlles the amount of air pressure the actuator sees. if you set the controller at 25# of boost the actuator does not see any boost until 25#.
 
Jason,

Thanks for explaining that in better detail. It makes sense now. You're setting the actuator rod to a 1/8th inch preload to keep it safely shut, and adjusting boost entirely with the controller, so that when the controllers set amount of boost is reached, the wastegate opens fully to better stabilize boost. Makes sense.

Only a couple more questions:

First... Is it an open or closed style controller? Or is there a bleeder hole? A bleeder would make it pulse and bounce open and closed rapidly. If it were just straight through with nowhere for the pressure to vent after it passed the ball, it wouldnt work right. Just clarifying that...

Secondly... How much adjustability is there with the controller? Whats the ratio of adjusting boost. Does it typically operate on the "one full turn equals one pound of boost"? Or is that something you just have to adjust and find? And how many psi of adjustability do you have in the controller. Say you tighen it as much as you can, but still want MORE boost. Would you then go back to shortening the WG actuator rod?

I appreciate the answers to these questions, as I'm about to try one of these controllers out. I just want to fully understand their operation and functionality. I'm willing to try something to improve spoolup and better stabilize boost and keep the amount of spike down. With stock boost controller setup, its either one or the other. This device sounds like it allows both aspects in boost control.

Will you by chance have anyone vending at Buick Day in Cecil County MD in October? Or are you guys the only ones who carry your products? Wouldnt mind looking at one of these first hand.
 
I think I can answer these for you.

Originally posted by GrndNatnl
Jason,

First... Is it an open or closed style controller? Or is there a bleeder hole? >>>>>>>Yes there is a bleeder.....

A bleeder would make it pulse and bounce open and closed rapidly. >>>>>>No it doesn't bounce if you have it set a 20 lbs at 21 lbs you now have 1 lb of pressure opening the wastegate not 21 lbs so no bounce or spike.....

Secondly... How much adjustability is there with the controller? >>>>> mine gets me as high as 22 to 23 lbs off my base setting (approx 1/8 preload) when fully closed or maxed out..

Whats the ratio of adjusting boost. Does it typically operate on the "one full turn equals one pound of boost"? Or is that something you just have to adjust and find? And how many psi of adjustability do you have in the controller. Say you tighen it as much as you can, but still want MORE boost. Would you then go back to shortening the WG actuator rod? >>>>>>>>Yes further adjustment for higher boost is made by shortening the actuator rod.....

I appreciate the answers to these questions, as I'm about to try one of these controllers out. I just want to fully understand their operation and functionality. I'm willing to try something to improve spoolup and better stabilize boost and keep the amount of spike down. With stock boost controller setup, its either one or the other. This device sounds like it allows both aspects in boost control. >>>>>>>>>Yes it does give you both

Will you by chance have anyone vending at Buick Day in Cecil County MD in October? Or are you guys the only ones who carry your products? Wouldnt mind looking at one of these first hand. >>>>>>>>HRpartsNstuff will likely be at Cecil and we carry them and we get them from Jace so I am not trying to cut him out....
Click to expand...

See answers above hope this helps a little... Dave
 
Running a TurboXS dual stage boost controller. Works perfect with a Trans Brake and is half the cost of an electronic BC.
Mitch
 
Folks,

Great discussion, glad I found it. I have both boost controllers...the "grainger" (just took it off bought from DC) and Jace's (just put it on). I am using a brand new Limit TE60 with HD actuator and Alky. I want to run the boost up to tune the car, (my EGT is still low low and O2's high at 20 psi) but my results are with either controller I get 20 psi max. My WG rod has about 1/8" tension on it. I may only want to run about 21-23 psi when all is said and done on the street, but I can't get there. And I want to be able to turn it up at the track...so I'd like to be able to adjust up to about 25-28 psi. My car is really all about street performance, so the spool and simplicity is what I'm after with this valve...works great for me up to 20 psi...I KNOW Jace isn't running 20 psi and he's using it.

Any comments or suggestions?

Need a few more psi!!

Thanks, Joed:confused:
 
RJC controller

Originally posted by joed
Folks,

Great discussion, glad I found it. I have both boost controllers...the "grainger" (just took it off bought from DC) and Jace's (just put it on). I am using a brand new Limit TE60 with HD actuator and Alky. I want to run the boost up to tune the car, (my EGT is still low low and O2's high at 20 psi) but my results are with either controller I get 20 psi max. My WG rod has about 1/8" tension on it. I may only want to run about 21-23 psi when all is said and done on the street, but I can't get there. And I want to be able to turn it up at the track...so I'd like to be able to adjust up to about 25-28 psi. My car is really all about street performance, so the spool and simplicity is what I'm after with this valve...works great for me up to 20 psi...I KNOW Jace isn't running 20 psi and he's using it.

Any comments or suggestions?

Need a few more psi!!

Thanks, Joed:confused:
Click to expand...

If I understand you correctly you have the controller maxed, correct? On my car it is maxed about 22 to 23 lbs from there you would just shorten the actuator rod to what ever higer setting desired.
 
Dave,
I'm not sure it's "maxed", but pretty close. I started at the lowest setting and got 17 psi, then I gave it acouple turns and it went to 20 psi, then I screwed and screwed...almost to the max and it never went up again. I'll try maxing it, then take the rod up a couple turns....Jace said it would adjust from 17 to 35 psi..so I just thought there was something wrong....so what we're blowing the wastegate open at 20 or 23 in your case...and have to give it more spring tension to keep it closed?

Thanks for the response.

Joed
 
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