thanks for the very detailed video and i see where your theory is true in some ways but i see where it did make a difference on the car and that is all that matters. my biggest thing was i now have more stable voltage and also when i run my assessories it doesnt drop as much as it did before. i too seen a difference in 2 tenths of a volt gain. 13.9 to 14.1 as you did too. not saying it makes a difference but i also changes to a heavy negative too. my end to this thread would have to be that all cars will not benefit from this as all cars are different. i also cant blame it on poor wiring or cluttered engine bay as you can see it is clean and neat. thanks
replacing factory 10 gauge wire did wonders
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thanks for the very detailed video and i see where your theory is true in some ways but i see where it did make a difference on the car and that is all that matters. my biggest thing was i now have more stable voltage and also when i run my assessories it doesnt drop as much as it did before. i too seen a difference in 2 tenths of a volt gain. 13.9 to 14.1 as you did too. not saying it makes a difference but i also changes to a heavy negative too. my end to this thread would have to be that all cars will not benefit from this as all cars are different. i also cant blame it on poor wiring or cluttered engine bay as you can see it is clean and neat. thanks
no change means no improvement
ANY change means improvement.
i saw a change in that video.
i have found that a new battery/alt cable makes a huge difference between it and the stock one.
in the video i would have liked to see the stock wire measured with the ammeter and the jumper cable with the stock wire disconnected.
i also feel that it works better from a performance standpoint to run an extra charging wire from the alternator to the starter.
ANY change means improvement.
i saw a change in that video.
i have found that a new battery/alt cable makes a huge difference between it and the stock one.
in the video i would have liked to see the stock wire measured with the ammeter and the jumper cable with the stock wire disconnected.
i also feel that it works better from a performance standpoint to run an extra charging wire from the alternator to the starter.
Turbo-Archie
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
Man, you just beat me to it.
Why wouldn't you just run the wire to the starter in the first place.
Thats what I was thinking from the begining of this thread.
I also agree with John in that its more likely a bandaid fix over an existing problem.
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Running extra wire is a hack move imo and not necessary. Those that are having voltage issues and see improvement adding wires have another problem. If there is a problem with the factory wiring replace it. Ive seen a lot of bad wires and other problems like rub through from the way GM decided to run factory wire without a fuse link. Ive seen even more problems where GM connected the fuse links to the wires. A lot of broken connections.
big mistake to believe most of what you read in most car audio mags or forums-------seldom will you find anyone with an education in that field and they are all prone to technovodoo fixes that are hatched in the marketing depts of the companies that sell gold connectors and fancy overpriced designer wire----------now think about what you have listed--------one thing is CERTAIN--------if 1 & 2 are true then 3 cannot be--------resistance either from a bad connection or too small a wire will REDUCE the strain on the charging system-------think about that and when it sinks in why then you will be on track to see what this thread is all about-------if you are unable to figure it out or just choose to disagree then you are hopelesly doomed to believe the nonsense that started this thread to begin with...................RC
Whether or not I believe what I read on ANY forum (or for that matter anywhere) is irrelevant. We take information in, assimilate it, weigh the risks then proceed.
What are the risks associated in replacing 21 year old wire with new ones?
What are the risks associated with this particular article being wrong?
What are the risks associated with installing Casper Electronics relocation harness?
What are the risks associated with taking vitamins to live longer?
You mention if 1 & 2 are true than 3 cannot be. Ok, I submit if 1 & 2 ARE true then I have realized a reward with very little or no risk taken. THAT, my friend is what I believe is the point of this thread is and when it sinks in why then you will be on track to see what this thread is all about.
In my life, I have learned that sometimes scientists and engineers forget that not all value can be measured & proved.
Human beings are funny that way.
funny??------personally i have never found ignorance of math, science and physics to have any humor at all------i take it very seriously and that is why I have taken the time to post on this thread-------the inability of our educational system to adequately deal with these subjects has put the future of this country in grave danger---------on average our populace is generally ignorant compared to nearly two dozen countries that surpass us--------if it has to do with electricity there is no mystery and it can be proved-------you will never be wrong if you understand the science-------unlike a lot of things in life one of the great things about electricity is that there is nothing that we (or at least some of us) do not understand about it------in very simple terms I have tried to explain the facts here along with the math------ I have even gone to the extent of providing a clear but concise demonstration and you insist on clinging to your silly premise-------enjoy your ignorance I have been told it is bliss-------I enjoy being a scientist and engineer---------helps me sleep at night knowing there is no voodoo coming into my house on the power wires-------my patience is extended as far as I can bear for it to go-------thats all I will have to say on this ridiculous thread............RC
my patience is extended as far as I can bear for it to go-------thats all I will have to say on this ridiculous thread............RC
good and dont let the door hit you in the a$$!!!!. also dont forget your flux capacitor mr scientist. we will all enjoy our ignorance!!! i'm told its bliss!!
Amps
I am happy to see that Richard Clark did this test. Voltage stayed about the same which is all the voltage regulator will allow the alternator will put out. But one thing that was noticed the amperage picked up!!! Thats great because you have more amps going through the system thus giving more power to the electronics.
If you have one bad cell in a FULLY charged battery the starter will not turn the engine over. Why because it lacks the amps (power). Been there experienced that.
The larger or extra wire does help and makes a difference! I guess those stereo guys know what they are doing
I am happy to see that Richard Clark did this test. Voltage stayed about the same which is all the voltage regulator will allow the alternator will put out. But one thing that was noticed the amperage picked up!!! Thats great because you have more amps going through the system thus giving more power to the electronics.
If you have one bad cell in a FULLY charged battery the starter will not turn the engine over. Why because it lacks the amps (power). Been there experienced that.
The larger or extra wire does help and makes a difference! I guess those stereo guys know what they are doing
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Man, you just beat me to it.
Why wouldn't you just run the wire to the starter in the first place.
Thats what I was thinking from the begining of this thread.
I also agree with John in that its more likely a bandaid fix over an existing problem.
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IMO It makes no difference going to the battery or starter. It's not the positive battery cable thats undersized. It's the wires from the starter to the fuse panel.
The positive cable has the most draw it will ever see when the starter is cranking the motor. That being said, the positive cable is way over sized for electrical system once the car is running.
Transferring alternator voltage is child's play for the positive cable. A running car can never come close to drawing as much as a cranking starter. Yes no?
Uhhh, ok Richard.
Anyway fellas my point is this. Most of us know our cars very very well. This mod is easy, cheap and not time consuming, so you have nothing to lose by giving it a shot - electrical theory aside. After all we all need something to do in the garage this winter...:smile:
Grab 12 feet or so of whatever gauge wire floats your boat. Pick up a couple of crimps. Note your "normal" pre-mod voltage for steadiness and strength. Change out the big three and see what happens. Worse case you'll have some nice new wire installed and the piece of mind that comes with knowing that. Best case you'll see something you may feel is an "improvement".
Oh, I was thinking back to what else I did when I went through my big three mod and there was one other thing. I unscrewed the big connector that goes to the fuse box (at the firewall) and cleaned it out with electrical contact cleaner and a toothbrush. You'd be surprised at how terrible the old 23 year old factory installed gunk/grease looks and how it seemed to be gunking up the works more than protecting anything. Even doing this is easy.
The reason I did this in the first place was to ensure everything would be up to snuff before I started adding my new radio, amps, dual fans, gauges, new fuel pump, V1, updated headlights, etc. to my car.
Good luck and positive or negative post back your results!
I dont doubt that some of you saw an improvement, just want to know if it came from the size of the wire or from replacing a bad wire
I just have one (well two) questions for the guys that saw improvement,
did anyone check the resistance of the stock wire (old wire)?
1. I would love to see how much resistance the stock wire (from people that saw an improvement) has compared to a new wire of the same gage and a new wire of a heavier gage 8, 6?
2. and here is the biggie, resistance of the stock wire once heat is applied? the stock wire is wrapped all around items that generate a lot of heat?
heat = resistance and if your stock cable is having a issue heat will multiply the problem IMO
I highly doubt there will be much difference in the the new wires, the old wires resistance being the bigger problem.
with all that being said when my car goes together, i will be checking the amp draw of the accessories i'm adding and choosing the appropriate size wire, doubt I'll need anything heavier then one wire one size larger.
I just have one (well two) questions for the guys that saw improvement,
did anyone check the resistance of the stock wire (old wire)?
1. I would love to see how much resistance the stock wire (from people that saw an improvement) has compared to a new wire of the same gage and a new wire of a heavier gage 8, 6?
2. and here is the biggie, resistance of the stock wire once heat is applied? the stock wire is wrapped all around items that generate a lot of heat?
heat = resistance and if your stock cable is having a issue heat will multiply the problem IMO
I highly doubt there will be much difference in the the new wires, the old wires resistance being the bigger problem.
with all that being said when my car goes together, i will be checking the amp draw of the accessories i'm adding and choosing the appropriate size wire, doubt I'll need anything heavier then one wire one size larger.
I kinda wondered why they did not check the stock wire also. I do appreciate them taking time to set everything up and make a video of it.
Wouldn't it be better if a heavier gauge wire was ran directly from the alt to a distribution block where your high current draw accessories (dual fans, fuel pump, alky pump, monster stereo) are wired?
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Thats the best way to do it.
Turbo-Archie
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
I fully understand all that but if I do it I'm going to bypass the battery and run the wire directly to the starter.
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i just want to clarify a few things here!!! as to my readings they are from the scanmaster not the battery. also i never said i gained volts as they are saying in the video. what i said was that my volts didnt change as much as they did before with either wire the volts were initially 14.1 even when i changed the wire the volts stayed the same. THE BIG IMPROVEMENT WAS WHEN I RAN MY ASSESSORIES AT IDLE!!!!!! also the bigger amp user is the rear defroster which i stated using. when the gentleman applied the jumper cables to the battery even he stated the amp increase was tremendous!!!!! so in my test that is why the windows and moon roof didnt change in speed "going slower" because of the increase in amps and inturn the volts would not drop as much. BIGGER GROUND ALSO HELP AS MINE DID. so take this info and and the proven video and see if this is voodoo or not!!!! also PITTSBURGH KID I DIDNT ADD AN ADDITIONAL WIRE TO THIS SETUP I CUT THE ORIGINAL WIRE OFF AND RAN THE NEW ONE. I DONT DO HACK JOBS ON MY CAR.
sorry for lashing out! just dont feel like bieng called a dumba$$ in an intelligent way.
Very understandable brother.
My father used to warn me about becoming BSPD (Book Smart People Dumb). He told me there's no greater waste than becoming a person who has a wealth of knowledge, but has lost the ability to convey it in a way people can easily accept it. No one is beneath being taught, but there are plenty of people beneath being teachers.
i hear that!!! one other thing i have been thinking about is all these people are saying that adding wires or changing them to a bigger size dont make a difference then all these people on the board have been scammed by caspers electronics. here is a company that has been changing everything that gm has supposedly perfected. if all who ever worked on a turbo regal would agree that the wiring and electrical system is far far from perfect or adequate so adding a larger ground as well as 4 gauge alternator wire would only help the car. i guess thats why they sell volt boosters, headlight brighteners, window motor helpers, bigger alternators, ccci hotwires, and fuel pump hotwires and ground relocators . to some i guess they are bandaids but to most they are an upgrade
