"More Boost"
Major Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2005
...............a picture speaks a thousand words
replacing factory 10 gauge wire did wonders
- Thread starter QUIP'6'
- Start date
Good analysis. In addition to your comments the crimping of a receptacle and terminal is as important. Working for large connector company we see several harnesses fail as a result of an inadequate crimp compression even at the OEM level. I always shake me head when I see someone use a pair of channel-locks to crimp a terminal/receptacle and states 'that will fix it'..
Mike Banas
87GN
what do you guys need pictures for. you just run the wire from the alternator behind the tensioner over the timing cover and down to the oil pump then up to the battery or just do it any old way you feel like it!!! as for the frame not bieng a ground i woulod have to dissagree. yes it does have rubber insulators but it does tranfer a ground thru the bolts as they do touch in places. thjis is why they recommend grounding the fuel pump from the gastank to the frame.
could you please explain to me where these bolts are? i grounded the tank to the strap bolt (body)
Caspers sells extenders. You get a pair of them so if you need to run grounds from the battery or if you just need the one for positive connections.
CEI - Casper's Electronics, Inc.
I do believe that you can do the same thing wit a 3/8" bolt a nut and a washer. But to each their own.
CEI - Casper's Electronics, Inc.
I do believe that you can do the same thing wit a 3/8" bolt a nut and a washer. But to each their own.
wire
the extenders are sold at any car audio shop they have brass fitting s long or short . we install 4 ga on every system we do over 700 watts real pwr , i have for 21 years it makes a diffrence for us ,try to soldir the connection food for thought . no reason to get so pissed off ,it works or not you be the judge . specs suck and wire is not wire so buy high end wire not walmart 4ga thats really at best 8 .so when someone does test its real . yall are great keep up the passion.
the extenders are sold at any car audio shop they have brass fitting s long or short . we install 4 ga on every system we do over 700 watts real pwr , i have for 21 years it makes a diffrence for us ,try to soldir the connection food for thought . no reason to get so pissed off ,it works or not you be the judge . specs suck and wire is not wire so buy high end wire not walmart 4ga thats really at best 8 .so when someone does test its real . yall are great keep up the passion.
like everyone else said advanced auto. brass lug with stud extension $2.99
Bruce Urie
The Ventures,CCR forever!
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
Pep Boys also has them, it's where I got mine....I use the extender for hooking up the permanent Battery Tender Jr. positive side. Nice brass extender for around $3.00.
Bruce '87 Grand National
Bruce '87 Grand National
This past Saturday, Richard Clark asked me to video tape a demonstration of why replacing a large gauge wire makes almost no difference in the voltage being supplied by the alternator.
The car used in this video is Jim Anson's.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3tav1F4OHE[/YOUTUBE]
The car used in this video is Jim Anson's.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3tav1F4OHE[/YOUTUBE]
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
The frame of the car is not grounded. Not unless a ground strap is installed from the motor to frame or battery to frame. The rubber mounts isolate the two from each other. The frame bolts are sandwiched in the rubber mounts. No ground is getting through.
I agree there is nothing to gain unless there is some type of issue with the alternator wire/connection but the real test needs to be done at the fuse pannel. The feed wire from the starter is easily overloaded when we start adding after market accessories inside the car.
IMO all accessories should be hot wired. That would take load off the fuse panel and leave more power for the ecm.
When you guys did this test, did you take note of ecm or fuse panel power?
I agree there is nothing to gain unless there is some type of issue with the alternator wire/connection but the real test needs to be done at the fuse pannel. The feed wire from the starter is easily overloaded when we start adding after market accessories inside the car.
IMO all accessories should be hot wired. That would take load off the fuse panel and leave more power for the ecm.
When you guys did this test, did you take note of ecm or fuse panel power?
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
I am no newbie to electricity and usually do 480 3 phase power but in all cases the most likely thing you had there was 20 year old wire that had oxidized inside and lost some of its contact so it couldn't carry full voltage on it. Changing it to a bigger wire surely did not hurt anything as it gives a little bit easier path for the current to flow when you put a load on it like windows, defrost, etc. As you go thur wiring you will see a voltage drop depending on wire size and lenght, thats why a lot of guys have ran new, bigger wires to the windows in the door with a relay so they get FULL voltage when you hit the switch and run a lot faster. Its just not having to go thur a ton of little wires before it gets there and losing voltage anymore. With wiring bigger is not always better but it can't hurt either lol. Daniel Ray
front mount on a stock car = bad day for daily driving. just my 2 cents. also i had electricle issues aswell and did the above and still had issues till i did a better chassis ground from the battery. but my car has issues so im sure there is somthing else at play with mine... lol
Pittsburghkid
Displacement Replacement.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
This is hilarious cause I can see the past present and future. Someone does this 10 years ago and added an 8g wire to the stock 10g wire and said this is great. Now it's not as great so then they think this must not be enough anymore and add a 6g wire. Yet again this is great now. 10 years down the road this isn't working again so lets add a 4g wire and there it is now my car works again. So what do you finally end up with when your car is 50 years old a 0g,4g,6g,8g, and finally stock 10 gauge wire going from you alternator to you battery and an extremely messy engine compartment and after all that what wire works best......THE NEWEST ONE regardless of size, why because it has the least oxidation and best connection to the terminals. If the stock wire wasn't big enough to handle the load of a bigger alternator it would have melted because it wasn't larger enough to handle the current that was trying to be forced through it. Upgrading to a larger wire isn't going to hurt anything but if your gonna use a larger wire make sure it's the only wire.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
Food for thought:
The alternator does not force power through the wire. Alternator amperage makes no differences to the wire unless the power is being demanded.
So........ maximum power thats being drawled needs to be determined. The system can then be sized for the application. IE wire gauge and alternator size.
Adding a bigger alternator than needed is a complete overkill. The extra amps are never used.
Pittsburghkid
Displacement Replacement.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
You are correct I should have worded that differently. The battery can need more than given and the alternator can give more than needed it's not until the need and the give both exceed the path of travel that it becomes a problem.
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
Nice video guy's!
Good video Richard! Nice to see actual real world testing done....
So what I gather from this whole thread is this, The only way you will see a noticable difference by going with a NEW larger wire is if your old wire is damaged/bad... Correct? and if your charge wire is in good shape you will see practically no change at all like the video shows!
So we should also note that just adding a larger wire to ANY Buick TR isn't alway's going to net the result like the ones who obviously had a damaged/bad factory charge wire..
Will it hurt, NO!
Will it always make a difference, NO!
Scot W.
Good video Richard! Nice to see actual real world testing done....
So what I gather from this whole thread is this, The only way you will see a noticable difference by going with a NEW larger wire is if your old wire is damaged/bad... Correct? and if your charge wire is in good shape you will see practically no change at all like the video shows!
So we should also note that just adding a larger wire to ANY Buick TR isn't alway's going to net the result like the ones who obviously had a damaged/bad factory charge wire..
Will it hurt, NO!
Will it always make a difference, NO!
Scot W.
I did this a couple of years ago based on reading an article on Car Domain (see a copy of the article here -->The Big 3 - Automotive and Car Audio Forums). Instead of just adding a wire between the battery and the alt, I replaced all three. Replacing instead of adding makes for a cleaner install and it is not that much more difficult. The alt wire just runs under the engine behind the intercooler (in a split loom cover) and up the other side - so no biggie to follow. The block is grounded to the firewall at the back of the engine and the battery ground is right next to the battery.
I also changed out my fusible link location using Casper's relocation kit and cleaned up all the connection points to the car. Once I was done, using my Scanmaster, I noticed my voltage became much more stable and was noticeably higher (even when my radiator fans turn on in the summer). I agree just changing the wires was probably not the fix, but performing the combination of what I did resulted in a noticeable difference.
The article claimed I would get the following benefits and I did.
1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system
To me, that's really the bottom line.
BTW - When I did this I used some 0/1 gauge wire that I had laying around for all three...I am a big fan of unnecessary overkill - ;-)
I also changed out my fusible link location using Casper's relocation kit and cleaned up all the connection points to the car. Once I was done, using my Scanmaster, I noticed my voltage became much more stable and was noticeably higher (even when my radiator fans turn on in the summer). I agree just changing the wires was probably not the fix, but performing the combination of what I did resulted in a noticeable difference.
The article claimed I would get the following benefits and I did.
1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system
To me, that's really the bottom line.
BTW - When I did this I used some 0/1 gauge wire that I had laying around for all three...I am a big fan of unnecessary overkill - ;-)
DailyDrifter
The Slow and the Curious
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2007
Wow, you guys must of really pissed Rich off , lol. Making the poor guy take time out of his busy schedule to make a video, complete with technical difficulties none the less . I wonder if Rich consulted "the weave" before he made this video, LOL.:biggrin:
, lol. Making the poor guy take time out of his busy schedule to make a video, complete with technical difficulties none the less . I wonder if Rich consulted "the weave" before he made this video, LOL.:biggrin:
