Race fuel or alky

[evil666]

I have a dual alky system from razor and I am wondering if I should switch to c16 and run it all the time instead of methanol injection. I am always worried that with the alky system there is always an extra thing to go wrong, or to worry about. I know that race fuel is expensive to run at all times but I put about + or - 600 miles on the car per season, which is not that much. For the extra money if the car will perform better and safer maybe it will be worth the extra money. With your experience will the car run faster and safer with race fuel at 27 lbs of boost , with a bit more timming compared to 25 lbs of boost and less timming on 94 octane and methanol injection?

Thanks ahead of time for your advice and opions.

head of time for your opions

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

Well, I think Razor makes a good kit and I have yet to have a problem with mine..I don't think much about it like I did with the non progressive older kit I used to have...However when I go to the track I will put some 110 in it as extra insurance and run with the alky as well...On the street I use only alky...For the amount you drive car and the peace of mind you want race gas sounds like the way to go!! As far as performing better the c-16 will be easier to tune...Do you have a chip for just race gas??

 

[696]

Is E-85 available in your area???

 

[we4Mateo]

You raise good points but the race gas will take out your O2 sensor in short order so you'll most likely need a new one every year even with just 600 miles or so. It is easier to tune with just race gas but the alky setup is pretty much set and done too when it's right.

 

[KEVINS]

With your experience will the car run faster and safer with race fuel at 27 lbs of boost , with a bit more timming compared to 25 lbs of boost and less timming on 94 octane and methanol injection?

Why would you run less boost with alchy?

I did the race gas thing for several years but I got tired of filling up with race fuel when I just wanted to drive around and it soon became a waste of money if I wasn't on it enjoying the benefit of the race fuel.
With alchy I can run 87 octane and I don’t have to beat myself over wasting expensive fuel just cruising around town but the alchy tank is always there when I feel the need for 30+psi of boost to tickly my adrenalin.

As someone mentioned above there is always E85 if you want to spend the $$ switching.
ks

 

[jasjamz]

Well, I like all three. Depending on how much time you spend at WOT, would be where I decide. I use E-85. I was an Alky car prior to that. Race fuel for mostly track cars. How much power can a daily driver put down on a regular street with cold tires? Spinning isn't winning.

 

[longball]

[quote=" the race gas will take out your O2 sensor in short order so you'll most likely need a new one every year even with just 600 miles or so."[/quote]

I usually got a few thousand miles out of my O2 sensor with race gas, up to 5K. I have seen many, many people post up race gas burns up their O2 sensor quickly. I have no idea why mine lasts longer
or theirs shorter? Your results MAY vary..........

 

[longball]

[quote="I am always worried that with the alky system there is always an extra thing to go wrong, or to worry about. I know that race fuel is expensive to run at all times but I put about + or - 600 miles on the car per season, which is not that much. For the extra money if the car will perform better and safer maybe it will be worth the extra money. Thanks ahead of time for your advice and opions."/quote]

The only problem I ever had with race fuel was finding it. I'd buy '55'gal drums from Lebanon Valley Dragway but whenever I'd take trips to the mountains of NY, VT, NH, ME, it was almost impossible to find and
IF you could find it(which you couldn't) it would be around $14 a gallon! I hated putting 93 in on a spot on 110 tune. So I switched to 93 and alky. Other than that, I loved the smell of race fuel. It smelled like.......
.....like, VICTORY!!! LOL

 

[Sydwyndr]

Pump and Alky will get you far with the right tune, JD and several people have been 9s on it and he relative cost is cheap as compared to racegas.. Racegas you have to burn all the time, alky only when you need it. Im an alky guy

 

[duber3]

I asked my self the same question as you, I wouldn't install an alky kit, so I've try octane booster (torco) I didn't like it, the spark plug came orange and at 16lbs of boost I had knock, so I've try race fuel, I've try an unleaded race fuel, Profuel make unleaded gas at high octane, I mixed the profuel 110 octane with the pump 91octane for obtaining 96 octane (http://www.bazellracefuels.com/Calcs/OC1.htm) and I've raised the boost to 19psi with 0 knock
I had to readjust the fuel pressure and the WOT fuel per the chip

 

[evil666]

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I don`t have access to e85 or else that would probably be my first chose. Over the winter I am thinking of switching over to the fast xfi, and if I do I will ask Cal Hartline what his opinion is on this. For the rest of this season I will continue on pump fuel and alky. I could try some race fuel and see how the car goes but I won`t have the full potential on the set up cause I have an alky chip.

 

[Phoneguy]

I asked my self the same question as you, I wouldn't install an alky kit, so I've try octane booster (torco) I didn't like it, the spark plug came orange and at 16lbs of boost I had knock, so I've try race fuel, I've try an unleaded race fuel, Profuel make unleaded gas at high octane, I mixed the profuel 110 octane with the pump 91octane for obtaining 96 octane (http://www.bazellracefuels.com/Calcs/OC1.htm) and I've raised the boost to 19psi with 0 knock
I had to readjust the fuel pressure and the WOT fuel per the chip

Only 19 psi with 96 octane ?? Should be able to get 17 psi on just pump gas.

Bryan

 

[duber3]

Only 19 psi with 96 octane ?? Should be able to get 17 psi on just pump gas.

Bryan

Well, where I live, the pump gas is only 91octane, I can assure you that with the 91octane we have, there's no way I can run at 17psi
even on stock boost
Maybe I should be able to run at 20psi or 21psi with my mixt, we'll see, I will let you inform

 

[Razor]

To me race gas was my "mod money".. the new tires, the new wheels, etc as it gets into the budget. A 5 gallon pail of C16 is 90 bucks down here. Once you start the car its getting burned. A simple drive to a local cruise in can cost 100 easy.

There is a pro and con to using a meth kit. The big con on leaded fuel is it tears up your exhaust, your down pipe, O2 sensor, etc. Anyone run race gas long enough will note the condition of those parts. Pump gas doesn't.

The alky kit needs to be tested and maintained. Its not a install and forget. Some guys get this some don't. The higher the boost run, the more you need to be watchful. I dont think there is a limit to potential achievable, and by now and these systems being refined over the last decade.. they have come a long way.

There is no safe boost. Cars blow up on race gas, as they do on pump gas, or on pump gas and a meth kit. Thing with meth kits, people drive the cars more.. so now they are hammering on the car more.. sooner than latter a problem can arise. The cars get beat on when hot, when cold, etc.. You suck more oil(PCV) into the chamber the more you drive it. This happens on all motors. Vs race gas, car sits... doesnt get driven.. when it does the attention span is better as the fuel getting burnt is costing..

My way.. I run a pressure transducer on my XFI.. I log my alcohol pressure, fuel pressure, back pressure and my first pass is always low boost.. to check things out.. once the readings come like they're expected.. crank the boost up.. no issues. Pump gets rebuilt need it or not every 2 years. This has been bullet proof for me.

 

[Grumpy]

Spinning isn't winning.

funny you should say that. Been driving the Mazda with a dual nozzle alky kit an it's hard to spin the tires. It is a blast. It just goes like a bat out of hell !! Melissa's GN gets a lot of beatings every day. Alky is the way for us since 2004

 

[jasjamz]

funny you should say that. Been driving the Mazda with a dual nozzle alky kit an it's hard to spin the tires. It is a blast. It just goes like a bat out of hell !! Melissa's GN gets a lot of beatings every day. Alky is the way for us since 2004

Grumpy I still like alky. But E-85 is something that you could not say no to. It really does make the car more responsive, torque increases, and resist detonation like 112-114 octane. I took day and used both fuels with another Buick owner as witness/test driver. Alky just allows more boost and timing. No change in the "feel" of the car out of boost or when coming into boost.

 

[Grumpy]

E85 stations are not around us .. Plus the quality variances would concern me. We have had Alky so long and it works great for us I am stubborn to change a good thing we have goin.

 

[Nick Micale]

Grumpy I still like alky. But E-85 is something that you could not say no to. It really does make the car more responsive, torque increases, and resist detonation like 112-114 octane...........

So far everything that was quoted above, we have tested and verified as well.

We are testing the statement from a very successful E-85 tuner "that you can make more HP with E-85 than 116 octane race gas"!

We have not verified the tuner's statement yet, but on the dyno, after converting my race to E-85 from 116, we did make the same power, and it was more responsive also, so we think he is correct!

Hopefully the weather will co-operate this weekend, not too hot that is, we will do some track testing with the car to get real-world data.

The only changes needed to the race car was larger injectors, different fuel filter and of course a program revision for e-85.

Here is my math, pick one, or 2 if on alky:

116 octane - $16 gallon

Premium gas - $3.60 gallon

E-85 - $3.10 gallon

Alky - $?? gallon

 

[kidglok]

If we had e85 here id be running it, problem is there are 3 stations in the whole state of new jersey that carry it.

I get M1 methanol in 5 gallon containers for about $30

 

[we4Mateo]

I get 5 gallons of meth for about the same price as E85.