So if I understand this all correctly since there appears to be a little sidestepping going on, is that all the vendors including TB.com gear who have stopped selling power 6 items are being pressured to do so from GM and NOT an individual private vendor??
Ok, what vendor has the rights to the Power6 emblem?
- Thread starter Quick6
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Why are we being grouped in with the vendors? We are not a vendor, we are just a web site.
We have our reasoning (which I already explained above) and whatever vendors have pulled their products have their reasoning, which I have no idea what that reasoning is. Why not ask them and get the scoop?
I am just asking that people get their facts straight before any more rumors or speculations are made publicly and manifest into someone stating those rumors as fact. We all know how that can go...
jon_we4
Cold Fusion Monkey
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I think there is some confusion. GM OWNS that logo and the rights. They license it out to other companies. That is really expensive. The discussion is that someone paid that extra money to bring attention to the people not paying.
I know that most people here are not lawyers....but I do know of one
I am not speaking for TB.com gear or Kirban...but Jax took their custom "6" embroidery off the site due to licensing issues.
I know that most people here are not lawyers....but I do know of one
I am not speaking for TB.com gear or Kirban...but Jax took their custom "6" embroidery off the site due to licensing issues.
WTF GNscott maybe you and the other guy should go f*** yourselves,how dare you address Jason like that in a PUBLIC forum,saying you agree with someone putting the heat on the people that give us this site for FREE!!!! Youve got nerve GNsnott, youve not even added anything to this thread and I think quick6 would agree you dont need to reply to this thread again unless YOU know who bought the rights. Maybe youd be better off going elsewhere cause I think were(xcept you) all in agreement that "whoever" did this is wronging tr owners big time by killing OUR PARTS AVAILABILITY
Originally posted by JasonD
Why are we being grouped in with the vendors? We are not a vendor, we are just a web site.
We have our reasoning (which I already explained above) and whatever vendors have pulled their products have their reasoning, which I have no idea what that reasoning is. Why not ask them and get the scoop?
I am just asking that people get their facts straight before any more rumors or speculations are made publicly and manifest into someone stating those rumors as fact. We all know how that can go...
I did not group you in with any malice, but you are a web site that sells a product, or you did to a specific audience which is what a vendor does...not implying anything???
As to getting the facts straight, that was the purpose of this thread, although not totally successful.
That is what I think, but the way people are talking about it, they are making it sound like GM abandoned/sold the COMLPLETE rights to a provate company, which I seriously do not believe to be the case.
I know that most people here are not lawyers....but I do know of one
Yeah, I know of one as well. I have talked with him a few times. He treated me with respect and understanding.
That's fair to me. If company A pays GM for the licensing to use the 6 in a mass-production environment (or otherwise) and company B does not but both companies produce and sell items for profit and mass-production, company A wouldn't feel that is unfair that they have to pay and company B doesn't. It is just like the paying advertisers here. Why should one vendor pay to advertise and make posts promoting their business while another company makes posts promoting their business without paying, how is that fair to the paying vendor? Honestly, it is not. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to rethink the situation.
GM employs a law firm called Equity Mangement Incorporated (or something like that, EMI for short). It is EMI's job to ensure that all products produced with GM logos are licensed to GM gets their percentage for people using what belongs to GM. That is only fair to GM, since they own the logo. EMI has an 800 for people to call in and report unlicensed merchandise. This protects GM's interests as well as the manufacturers who pay GM to license the logos. That is business and GM and licensed manufacturers have the right to defend the best interests of their business. It is somewhat harsh sometimes, but that is how business works.
This site, however, is another situaiton. I wish we sould say that this site pays my bills and puts money int he bank, but it doesn't. We struggle just to keep the damn thing running.
Again, we are working to ensure that we aren't stepping on anyone's toes, GM's or otherwise.
If company A pays GM for the licensing to use the 6 in a mass-production environment (or otherwise) and company B does not but both companies produce and sell items for profit and mass-production, company A wouldn't feel that is unfair that they have to pay and company B doesn't. It is just like the paying advertisers here. Why should one vendor pay to advertise and make posts promoting their business while another company makes posts promoting their business without paying, how is that fair to the paying vendor.
Your totally right Jason but if company A bought the licesneing rights just to STOP company B from making their product,then that causes GM to crack down on everyone else,making us lose OUR PARTS AVAILABILITY, because vendor A wants to turn a bigger profit by cutting down on his competition,then he affects other vendors that sell similar types of products(emblems,etc). Which is NOT good for tr owners. And im still wondering WHY on earth he told me he bought the rights if he didnt Bottom line is even if he does/doesnt own the rights,hes directly responsible for vendors pulling their products. And vendor A sells ALOT of his products,thru posts, on this board.
Your totally right Jason but if company A bought the licesneing rights just to STOP company B from making their product,then that causes GM to crack down on everyone else,making us lose OUR PARTS AVAILABILITY, because vendor A wants to turn a bigger profit by cutting down on his competition,then he affects other vendors that sell similar types of products(emblems,etc). Which is NOT good for tr owners. And im still wondering WHY on earth he told me he bought the rights if he didnt
Bottom line is even if he does/doesnt own the rights,hes directly responsible for vendors pulling their products. And vendor A sells ALOT of his products,thru posts, on this board.Are you sure that was the case? I would think they would get licensed...to be officailly licensed. Then, stopping unlicensed companies from making their product is just protecting their investment in the licensing.
Well, yeah...but like I said, sometimes that is how business works. It is not always good, but sometimes that is what a company needs to do to get ahead. I am not saying it is the right thing to do, but I can understand why it happens.
And im still wondering WHY on earth he told me he bought the rights if he didnt
If you are referring to company A, I am assuming thet they did buy the rights to make licensed products with a GM logo on it, and did NOT buy the EXCLUSIVE rights and OWNERSHIP of the logo. Two different things.
Maybe in PART, but not in whole. The vendors not being licensed is another part of that reason. Unless I misunderstand the situation, if the vendors were licensed they would not have to pull their products.
Again, I am not saying it ir right or good, but I understand how it works. Business sure does suck sometimes.
Oh really? Can you please do me a quick favor and privately e-mail me a few links I could take a look at? I would very much appreciate it. My e-mail is jason@turbobuick.com
For one, I don't even now "the other guy" Number two. weather someone likes it or not, both ventures, TB.com and a supposed investment by a vendor for the licensing, are both a business ventures. I'm sure Jason has alot invested in this both monetarily and even more time wise, and the merchandise is to offset the cost of running the board, but i'm sure the person who bought the licensing (whoever it is) will have, or has paid tens of thousands of dollars for it. SLORIDE, you re the one that incinuated to the board that this vendor owned the rights.You have said it more than once. I could care lesswh owns it. You have said this vendor uses the board to sell his items w/out using a banner ad (which I agree hurts everyone on the board),but you don't think it sorta like someone stealing YOUR logo tha you paid big bucks for and makng money off it?? My suggestion to Jason, based off all of your accusations and assmptions ie. Car Motorsports owns the rights, ad that they use the site to advertise and sell, was that the logo is worth money, and the banner ad is worth someting,and if licensing was the problem for some of the items not currently being sold in the store, a deal should be worked so those items can once again be sold.
If I owned the licensing, like anyone who made an investment like that, I would charge everyone a fee that used it. It is noone elses to use and make money off it. They all could have stepped up and bought it. I would agree that the guy is some of those colorful words you use on the board if someone called and said they wanted to use the logo on say a key chain, and they were willing to pay a licensing fee from them, and they were turned down, and now no one could have that keychain, but to expect to use that logo for free, especially tomake money off of it, is not right. Yea it sucks for "we" the consumer that there is a monopoly on it, ad guys aren't stealing the logo from GM anymore, because the prices will go up i'm sure, but me as a small business owner, I cannot blame it on the guy that stepped up and made the investment and is now trying to protect it. All of this I m baseing off what you have told the board. So now,did you call the owner asking to use the logo? If so, did you offer to pay a licensing fee?? Did you ask to use it free?? Maybe if you elaborated on the conversation you had with him, I could more easily agree what kind of person he is personally.
If you read my posts youll see basically what has been said between me and this guy,which is basically "Im gonna sue you" and"I own the rights so what" time and again. Who in their right mind is gonna start paying a hefty fee to use these rights after theyve used them so long for "free"??? The GN logos havent been used in almost 16 years,14 for the power 6!!! If I was Kirban,Jax,Poston,or any other vendor id wouldnt sell YOU a product for a million dollars,seeing as youve basically called them all "theives", including Jason and the administrators of tb(which remember they give us this site for FREE!!). Also I would personally pay a "vendor fee" to keep this guy off the board as a supporting vendor. With friends like him in the tr community,who needs enemys. Maybe when you have to pay 500$ to 700$ for emblems,you can talk to me then.VENDORS TAKE NOTICE OF THIS GUY, DONT SELL HIM ANYTHING!!!
So, becuase you unawfully used it for soooo long, you now have the right??? Igree, I can't stand litigius people, but it sounds like you really know how to talk to people, and i'm sure now, that you did not offer to pay for rights to a logo YOU say he owns.
Wrong...GM still sells the emblems, or at least they did a couple of months ago. If its ok to use them, why aren't you?? aybe because you are still trying to find an excuse for illegally using them.
And you can add me to th list. I made some t-shirts using the logo and gave them to friends. I think all the above vendors, if they never had a license realize that they/we all got a free ride, what you can't realize is that the ride is over (according to you). This is detemined by US Patent and copyright laws, not by me. That is what makes the rights so expensive, that is what gives them their value. If not, the rights wouldn't be worth .02. Who sould be out that money? GM? the guy (according to you) who bought the rights,or the people who are using it illegally???
If this guy was gouging prices would agree, but it sounds to me like your mad because you can't use the logo for free. Do you not understand that yes, we all agree that it sucks that people cannot use the logo for free anymore, legally you never were supposed to, but we all did. Yes, we were all "theives" since you want to put it that way,but we new what we were doing. GM shut down Ebay auctions, and alot of vendors products. Yes it sucked, but you are mad at the guy who went it did it legally (again all according to you), went and invested big $$ to do it right, and is doing nohing different than what GM did when they shut a bunch of things down, and that is why think you are wrong. You have said nothing in this thread to tell me why you or anyoe should be able to use it for free. This site is free for you and me, but it is not supposed to be free for vendors selling their merchandise. I bought merchandise from tb.com store to help support this site, Ihave volunteered my time in posts to help the board, and i've been on this board for over 4 years,way before the crash. I just wish a group of people had gotten together and each put up $1k to buy the rights, so the a bunch of people could have owned the rights, but to bitch, call a guy names, say he's going to rip everyone off on emblems because you cannot use the logo, is wrong.
I am saying i agree with you on this point if it happens, but I cannot blame someone for buying the rights. Like I said, If i knew you could buy them I would have started a thread for investors. I'd love to be a part owner of the logo. Ishe gouging now on the TTA emblem rights he owns??
Of course the price will rise on emblems,they were all run back in th 80's in a huge lot. They will problably be run in small lots now at 2003 pricing, and now on top of that, someone had to buy the license. Each product they make is going to have that figured into the cost.I am not going to predict that a vendor is going to gouge until I see proof of it. I just can't blame someone for buying the rights either. Another way to look at it is that at least we know the emblems will still be produced after the supply has run out. How many parts can we no longer get altogether??
dammm what a pissin contest also why "hide" behind a name???? As far as I can see you can get permission to "use" GM trademarks....GM still owns them right??? you like "rent " them .. .. as far as the TTA emblems...do you "sloride " even own a TTA??? welll really doesnt matter. the repo emblems are NICE....ya they are $6-700 ...that is a deal!!!! go buy original ones...try ebay I sold 2 fender emblems for $300 on ebay..oppps guess I sould have just given them away right??!! it's called supply an demand...I am thrilled they repo them...the quality is unbelievable!!! an you get them all for that price..
On another note you think GN parts are goin to come down as the cars get older??? NOT!!!
sorry for the rant guy's.
also why "hide" behind a name???? As far as I can see you can get permission to "use" GM trademarks....GM still owns them right??? you like "rent " them .. .. as far as the TTA emblems...do you "sloride " even own a TTA??? welll really doesnt matter. the repo emblems are NICE....ya they are $6-700 ...that is a deal!!!! go buy original ones...try ebay I sold 2 fender emblems for $300 on ebay..oppps guess I sould have just given them away right??!! it's called supply an demand...I am thrilled they repo them...the quality is unbelievable!!! an you get them all for that price..On another note you think GN parts are goin to come down as the cars get older??? NOT!!!
sorry for the rant guy's.
b4black
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
But your not. Your some unknown making assumptions and unproven accusations. Kirban, Jax, Poston and any others are big boys. They can handle their own bussinesses, let them. I'm sure they know what's going on and they ain't saying anything. I doubt anybody here believes it's for fear of being sued.
Get some facts before you post again. Put up or SHUT UP!
I dont see why you guys see anything wrong with shady buisness practices resulting in LESS PARTS FOR OUR CARS. Oh well im done trying to talk sense into you guys, when you have to pay 1k$ for emblems oh well. Grumpy all you are is another supporter of someone whos taking away our parts. Thanks alot Yeah the prices are gonna come down,what did you pay for a turbo upgrade or fm in 87?? I bet at least twice the price you pay now.
b4black crawl back under your rock. If vendors werent afraid of being sued they would still make the products.And you notice how Pete from Kirbans wont tell us what the story is.... What does that tell you???
Yeah the prices are gonna come down,what did you pay for a turbo upgrade or fm in 87?? I bet at least twice the price you pay now.b4black crawl back under your rock. If vendors werent afraid of being sued they would still make the products.And you notice how Pete from Kirbans wont tell us what the story is.... What does that tell you???
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