Nozzle Size & Accumulator ????

[PaulRV6]

I am considering using the NOS nozzle for my single stage alchy injection. What size nozzle do you folks recommend? I have a stock turbo (boost is whatever stock can go to) with 36 lb injectors.

Is it worth considering an accumulator in the system? I have read where folks say they are a good addition but do not know the reason. Anyone else using one? What is your reason for it and where is it installed? Thanks

paul

 

[Crazi]

I would go with a McMaster-Carr nozzle. Get a M10 and drill the hole and JB Weld it into the up pipe. It will atomize SOOO much better then the NOS nozzle. I started with the NOS nozzle and then went with the M10. Big difference...

 

[PaulRV6]

Crazi, is the M10 the orifice size? Is there any way to hold it in other than JB weld? I would rather have a threaded installation.
Thanks

paul

 

[Crazi]

The nozzle has the threads on the outside. Hmm kinda hard to explain....

The nozzle is like a 1/2" nut or so and you put it in the inside of the up pipe towards the outside. Then you thread it into your 1/8" npt connection. It has a built in metal screen filter. I think a picture would be simpler...

McMaster-Carr Nozzle

You want the 3178K76 which is 10 Gallons per minute at 100psi.

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by Crazi
I would go with a McMaster-Carr nozzle. Get a M10 and drill the hole and JB Weld it into the up pipe. It will atomize SOOO much better then the NOS nozzle. I started with the NOS nozzle and then went with the M10. Big difference...

I'd be curious as to the "big difference". How fast do you have to go before it makes a "big difference" over an NOS nozzle? I'm sure I can go 11's with an nos nozzle and a 60psi pump. Is the McMaster-Carr the nozzle of choice for running in the 10s?

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by PaulRV6
I am considering using the NOS nozzle for my single stage alchy injection. What size nozzle do you folks recommend? I have a stock turbo (boost is whatever stock can go to) with 36 lb injectors.



paul

NOS #13500 fan spray nozzle with a .030 jet. Installation is described in the diy website. What's an accumulator as pertaining to an alcohol kit? Whatever it's use, I don't think it's necessary because I haven't had one for three years.

 

[Razor]

So if I strip and break the tip of the NOS nozzle when installing it..can I still use it?

 

[Red Regal T]

If you strip it and break it, I'll laugh!

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Originally posted by Crazi
The nozzle has the threads on the outside. Hmm kinda hard to explain....

The nozzle is like a 1/2" nut or so and you put it in the inside of the up pipe towards the outside. Then you thread it into your 1/8" npt connection. It has a built in metal screen filter. I think a picture would be simpler...

McMaster-Carr Nozzle

You want the 3178K76 which is 10 Gallons per minute at 100psi.

Great post Crazi, but you meant (cough hack, hehe) 10 gallons per hour right... That would give you one third of an ounce per second, which is just about right!

 

[PaulRV6]

I woulkd also like to know the difference between the two nozzles? Like Red asked, when is the M10 nozzle needed and why did you switch? Thanks for the good info.

I was reading about a setup with the alchy tank/pump was in the trunk and he was using an accumulator (not sure why) but he said it was needed, maybe because of the long way for the alchy to travel and too much lag time. So I asked.

paul

 

[R-R]

Originally posted by PaulRV6
I woulkd also like to know the difference between the two nozzles? Like Red asked, when is the M10 nozzle needed and why did you switch? Thanks for the good info.

I was reading about a setup with the alchy tank/pump was in the trunk and he was using an accumulator (not sure why) but he said it was needed, maybe because of the long way for the alchy to travel and too much lag time. So I asked.

paul

Don't know if you're talking about my system, but that's the way it's configured. As I've said before, mine's a "full time" system. It's always under pressure wheither the engine's running or not. The accumulator helps to maintain constant pressure so my pump rarely comes on. Since I tow, my requirments probably differ from yours. If you're going to have the pump come on at the injection set point, you don't want an accumulator. As far as nozzles, the McCarr's are way cheaper than NOS type and don't need to protrude in the airsteam.

 

[turbo buicks]

which McMaster cone pattern would be the one to use? 80* or 160*.

 

[R-R]

I'm using #3178k75 and #3178k76 which are 80° full cone pattern. Most everyone I know of uses these but I guess there's no reason you couldn't try the 160°. I machined off the hex and threaded the nose so they screw in from the outside and don't protrude into the airstream. (I don't want to take credit for thinking to do that. A few TurboBuick members did it first and gave me the idea.)

 

[PaulRV6]

R-R, do you have a picture of the modified nozzle? I am interested in seeing it, kinda hard to picture in my head. How is it held in then?

 

[Steve Hill]

Red Regat T,
I believe the "difference" between nozzles is not so much ultimate boost you can run, but more with driveability (part and full throttle) and overall system efficiency (economy).

For instance, with a specific nozzle(s) I could run 25 lbs with the stock turbo. But a pound more or less was a problem.
It also wouldn't allow 4th gear w/o knock.
After switching over to high atomizing-type nozzles I found much better latitude in tuning, and could now run into 4th w/o any knock.
Same amount of product being used, just a better use of it.

As for the accumulator, the theory here is to eliminate inherent system hysteresis, or, lag.
If you gauge a system you will see a noticable period of time, usually less than 2 seconds, before system pressures stabilize.
This lag time may or may not be a problem for you, thanks to the specific personalities and variables of each engine.

 

[PaulRV6]

So I take it from your post S. Hill that the McMaster Carr nozzle is the high atomizing style? Would this be a better choice for a stock type setup then?
I understand about the accumulator, thanks to all who explained.

paul

 

[Steve Hill]

unfortunately, Paul, I have no experience with the McMaster nozzles. However, judging fome the web page Crazi posted they look pretty decent.
I can only say I don't believe the NOS-style nozzle was intended for this application.

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by Steve Hill
Red Regat T,
I believe the "difference" between nozzles is not so much ultimate boost you can run, but more with driveability (part and full throttle) and overall system efficiency (economy).

For instance, with a specific nozzle(s) I could run 25 lbs with the stock turbo. But a pound more or less was a problem.
It also wouldn't allow 4th gear w/o knock.
After switching over to high atomizing-type nozzles I found much better latitude in tuning, and could now run into 4th w/o any knock.
Same amount of product being used, just a better use of it.

As for the accumulator, the theory here is to eliminate inherent system hysteresis, or, lag.
If you gauge a system you will see a noticable period of time, usually less than 2 seconds, before system pressures stabilize.
This lag time may or may not be a problem for you, thanks to the specific personalities and variables of each engine.

I really think we're talking about apples and oranges. I only run 12.50s on street tires. I don't have to go into 4th gear as you describe with your high horsepower car. If my plan was to run 10s, I guess I'd have to explore, solenoids, vapor nozzles, pump speed, pump pressure and all that stuff. I don't. I already know the NOS nozzle and jet work great with no driveability problems in a stock or modified car for running into the 11s because I have been running such a car for 70,000 miles. I have NO TUNING ISSUES with my diy alcohol system. Why confuse the issue with all this extra BS unless you want to run 10s with alcohol? Why should someone with a stock turbo, as the original poster has, be burdened with all this extra paraphenalia?

 

[turbo buicks]

hahaha, nice post john. anyone ever use one of them spiral nozzles? those look pretty sweet.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

We all need to get John's DIY kit so we can elliminate this forum and end all this useless discussion.

We should all drive the same car. (Volkswagon Beetle)

In a perfect world we would all be named John, work the same job, and receive the same pay.

We would all be as good looking, and as smart as John, but not better looking, or smarter.

We would all live in the same style and color house house.

We would all be married to the same woman (Mary) and would all have the same number, and sex children.

We would all think the same way, there would be no need for religion, art or music since we would be too busy worshiping our DIY alchy kits (in the volkswagon).

We would argue constantly, even though nobody had an original thoughts (not allowed).

Whatever workes well, would never be improved upon.

Hookers would still call us 'Johns'.

Somebody would need to fix the limerick of 'Jack sprat could eat no fat' to 'John John could eat no. Jack and the beanstalk would disappear...

Farmers would grow 'John', instead of Timothy.

We could still sit on the 'John', I suppose that could be OK.

Might as well change the American Flag while we are at it. Instead of stars, there could be 50 little white toilets in the corner. The stripes would be strips of toilete paper....

John would also be president. Which John, wouldn't make any difference.