New Turbo Buick Owner - Frustrated with Knock read from Scanmaster, help appreciated

[Pronto]

Well, bad gas would certainly add to any issues going on too. Easy enough to test. I didn't mean to sound like you got a bad deal. It's not uncommon though after owning a car for a while and modding it to forget what you've done or put on and then taken off. I'ld take that offer for the injectors and chip. The important part is you understand that whatever the issue is you need to solve it b/f you hurt the engine.

 

[Hatdragracer]

Before I was going to try and drive the car today with some Xylene mixed in the fuel, I decided to go ahead and check for vacuum leaks. I started with the plastic vacuum connection point that bolts to the TB, and noticed right away that it was overtightened and one of the plastic nipples was broken off. The vaccum lines them self were rotten and disintegrated as soon as I touched them. Oh well...as I was fiddling with the lines I noticed the fasteners holding the TB to the plenum were loose, while I had the hex tool out I noticed that of the 5 bolts holding the plenum to the manifod, 1 was more than finger tight, and one of the fasteners is completely missing! From what I saw today I realize how lucky I am the car was running at all. I went ahead and pulled the plenum and fuel rails off since I know I am likely going to upgrade the injectors to 60lbs with a TT chip that better matched a PT52 turbo.

My dream of just driving a fast turbo regal is well and truly over and it looks like I need to put some more $$ and time into it., the wife came out this morning and gave the I told you so look..hate that!

I am at a bit of a crossroads, unsure of how much further to take the teardown and where are areas I may find loosened fasteners in the rest of the engine... at bare minimum I will be checking the torque on the intake manifolds before re assembly.

Is there much to be gained with my set up with changing to an aftermarket plenum or TB? Remember my end goal is a DD capable car with AC and cruise that can go 12.50-12.90.

I also wonder how many more times I am going to have to learn the lesson of starting with the simple stuff first?

 

[we4Mateo]

Just get the car back to good running order and don't worry about upgrading any hard parts with those goals. You can run easy/reliable 11's with a smallish turbo and stock long block. Fix the vacuum leaks, make sure your fuel AND electrical systems are good, learn to tune it with a scanmaster and TT or Bailey chip and you'll exceed your goals. You'll need a good tranny to run 11's though reliably. Don't skimp on the tranny, but there are a few good vendors that'll ship one right to you.

 

[Pronto]

Yup, vacuum leaks are a major issue there! Fix those issues and see what happens. Replace all the lines while your at it. Bet alot of the issues well be gone. The BLMs at cruise will tell if you how much the leaks were hurting. Let us know how you make out.

 

[Ttype6]

My dream of just driving a fast turbo regal is well and truly over and it looks like I need to put some more $$ and time into it., the wife came out this morning and gave the I told you so look..hate that!

Really? You just found a simple problem that can cause big problems. Do you know how many guys on this sight have big problems who wish they could find a simple solution. Why are you taking things apart? Fix your leaks, tighten your bolts,add some xylene,re-set the computer,drive the car,and report your Scanmaster numbers. Your BLM number should fall and you IAC number should rise.

These leaks can cause the computer to learn incorrectly,but you're a few vacuum lines away from driving a fast car.

So the wife says I told you so. For what? A couple of vacuum leaks.

Man, your almost there. It's possibly going to cost you next to nothing to fix your car. You should be telling her so.

 

[Boost231]

I'm truly amazed by all the bad info given in this post. However there is also alot of good info posted to make up for the bad. This post shows how everyone has a different approach to tunning and diagnosing problems with these cars.

To the OP, your on your way to figuring out the problem. But let me remind you, with the knock your getting your lucky you haven't poped a HG yet. Your one WOT run away from more then your wanting. You will be lucky if its just a HG IMOP.

You need to verify what you have and yes you will have to put some $$$ into the car. Getting the right parts and spending money on the correct items is up to you and the SEARCH button. With all the cool items that we have some things are a no brainer to Spend the money on. Also knowing you have the correct parts to make the combination work is another thing. Start with the basics and work from their. Checking for Vac leaks should have been done before this post was start IMOP. Go back to the Basics and then work from their.

As for the Powerlogger Scanmaster topic, I'm glad to see the OP has a scanmaster but the Powerlogger is so much better for working out problems like this.
Comparing a Scanmaster to a PL is like tunning with O2's Vs a WB. Yes they both will work but why tune with outdated items. I'm by no means saying you need a PL just saying its better. Before getting a PL i would be looking at finding out what injectors i have and getting a chip TT for my combo, but knowing turbo, converter, etc is needed.

But like i said, start with the basics and work from there.

Sounds like a spring cleaning is needed if not done yet.

 

[Hatdragracer]

Really? You just found a simple problem that can cause big problems. Do you know how many guys on this sight have big problems who wish they could find a simple solution. Why are you taking things apart? Fix your leaks, tighten your bolts,add some xylene,re-set the computer,drive the car,and report your Scanmaster numbers. Your BLM number should fall and you IAC number should rise.

These leaks can cause the computer to learn incorrectly,but you're a few vacuum lines away from driving a fast car.

So the wife says I told you so. For what? A couple of vacuum leaks.

Man, your almost there. It's possibly going to cost you next to nothing to fix your car. You should be telling her so.

I didnt mean that the issues were unfixable...I know it will be running soon...I bought the regal thinking I could just drive and enjoy...not that I mind too much getting my hands dirty, I have other project cars.

 

[Ttype6]

I started with the plastic vacuum connection point that bolts to the TB, and noticed right away that it was overtightened and one of the plastic nipples was broken off.

I didn't notice this.I guess a piece of hose won't fix this.You'll need a new vacuum block. Your IAC number was a ltitle lower than it might have been,but I'm surprised it wasn't zero with this kind of leak. And,of course this would explain your high BLM numbers.

Wow I'm just embarrassed that none of us asked you to inspect your vacuum lines. ASS U ME
Which nipple is broken?

 

[Hatdragracer]

Sounds like a spring cleaning is needed if not done yet.

Thanks for the advice...and yes a spring cleaning is in process.

 

[Hatdragracer]

I didn't notice this.I guess a piece of hose won't fix this.You'll need a new vacuum block. Your IAC number was a ltitle lower than it might have been,but I'm surprised it wasn't zero with this kind of leak. And,of course this would explain your high BLM numbers.

Wow I'm just embarrassed that none of us asked you to inspect your vacuum lines. ASS U ME
Which nipple is broken?

No one is more embarrassed than me...I am by no means an expert mechanic but I seem to regulalry overlook the simple issues...I mean two days ago I was considering buying a $2000 stand alone EFI system!

It was the very front nipple...if I remember right it is the one that fed into the vapor canister.

 

[Ttype6]

No one is more embarrassed than me...I am by no means an expert mechanic but I seem to regulalry overlook the simple issues...I mean two days ago I was considering buying a $2000 stand alone EFI system!

It was the very front nipple...if I remember right it is the one that fed into the vapor canister.

You'll never need a stand alone.
My concern is that that leak would effect the amount of boost pressure that the regulator would see. If it does your fuel pressure will be low.
Leaks don't matter so much at WOT,but if the leak effects the regulators signal,fuel pressure suffers. That's bad.
Is the break clean enough that you could put a screw in the hole until you get a new vacuum block.
If so,you can fix all the other leaks you have and test it tomorrow.

 

[Pronto]

'm just embarrassed that none of us asked you to inspect your vacuum lines. ASS U ME
Which nipple is broken?

Vacuum leaks were mentioned after he posted the Scanmaster numbers.

 

[Ttype6]

Vacuum leaks were mentioned after he posted the Scanmaster numbers.

I see that. The IAC is the biggest indicator of a vacuum leak and I did notice it was low,but usually it will go to zero. I noticed the IAC and the BLM but didn't say anything.

This simple visual inspection should have been the first thing talked about,but we all ASS U ME.

 

[Hatdragracer]

You'll never need a stand alone.
My concern is that that leak would effect the amount of boost pressure that the regulator would see. If it does your fuel pressure will be low.
Leaks don't matter so much at WOT,but if the leak effects the regulators signal,fuel pressure suffers. That's bad.
Is the break clean enough that you could put a screw in the hole until you get a new vacuum block.
If so,you can fix all the other leaks you have and test it tomorrow.

I would love to drive it again tomorrow....but I am going to wait until I have the TT and the matched injectors, as well as a new vacuum block (metal)
I also want to complete the Spring Cleaning before I drive again.

Thanks to all of those who responded for all your patience...I do regret not being more thorough with the basics before posting.

 

[Jerryl]

. . . . ....I do regret not being more thorough with the basics before posting.

There is no need to regret . . . . When you come from the NA world to a TB, you will be on the "learning curve of basics".
Most of us have done that at one time or another. Some of us (like me) stay on that curve for a long time . . . LOL
One thing you MUST learn with a TB; Patience
These cars require patience, and you can NOT take shortcuts and get away with it like you can on a NA motor. . . . . . oh and you need to verify EVERYTHING!
If not, you will be asking;
1-How to change HG
2-Best place to rebuild a motor
3-How to fit a SBC in a TB

.

 

[Ttype6]

I would love to drive it again tomorrow....but I am going to wait until I have the TT and the matched injectors, as well as a new vacuum block (metal)
I also want to complete the Spring Cleaning before I drive again.

Thanks to all of those who responded for all your patience...I do regret not being more thorough with the basics before posting.

If you replace the chip and injectors before you get the car running right you won't know if either are bad. There's no evidence to show that they are. There is however plenty of evidence to show that they are good and function well in your application. Your old injectors and chip could be sold to some one who needs an upgrade,but you won't be able to do that with a clear conscience.

A modern chip,with its adjust ability is great and I recommend one,but there's nothing wrong with what you have. It already works for your application.

You are currently in the middle of a spring cleaning and you found a serious problem with a simple solution. I'd like to see you see it to the end so you and others and your wife can learn something. The wife sees you dumping money into a money pit and doesn't like it. You're spending money that isn't necessary and it makes you look bad in her eyes.
I'm afraid that when you get this thing running right,you and others will give undue credit to the chip and injectors The solution is not new injectors and a chip.

My wish is that you get the car running right first,so you can see how truly good your combination is. You're so close. Then you could install the new chip and injectors and sell the old ones in good faith.

If you go this route,you'll have real world experience with upgrading to a moder chip that you could relay to someone thinking about doing the same thing.

 

[Pronto]

Grab a billet vacuum block and lines and see what happens. No need go to injectors and chip immediately.

 

[Hatdragracer]

Grab a billet vacuum block and lines and see what happens. No need go to injectors and chip immediately.

Fair enough...Boost231's post has me a little concerned about one more WOT run, so I would feel so much better with a known chip and injectors...Ill give it some thought..thanks for the advice.

 

[YouLikeThat]

Sounds like you are on the right track.

I just wanted to agree with everyone and say that you should be tuning for zero knock and every time you get any kind of knock get out of the throttle.

Good luck

 

[Boost231]

I agree with not buying new injector just yet. I would verify what injectors are currently in the car and get a chip that i know 100% is set right for your combo. who knows what changed since that chip was installed. chips are cheap, injectors not so much. but i still would like know what injectors are in the car.