journal vs BB turbos. Are they really worth it?

[karolko]

i went to look at the pricing for turbos today and was shocked at the cost difference between a journal turbo and a BB turbo.

Is the cost offset really worth the performance gain. I understand that i can achieve a quicker spool up time, but what else???

personally, i am aiming towards a 70gtq and currently have a 3200 stall (which i think is a little low) so would a BB unit help out my situation?

 

[bison]

i went to look at the pricing for turbos today and was shocked at the cost difference between a journal turbo and a BB turbo.

Is the cost offset really worth the performance gain. I understand that i can achieve a quicker spool up time, but what else???

personally, i am aiming towards a 70gtq and currently have a 3200 stall (which i think is a little low) so would a BB unit help out my situation?

I didnt think the difference was that extreme. About $400 more for a BB in most instances. The 70GTQ will be an absolute pig with a 3200 converter in journal config. It will need a 3400 to be ok even with a BB. Journal needs something that will go to at least 3800 at zero boost/vacuum on a 231ci. The performance gain is worth it if you have a street car since you can run a tighter converter and get the same spool. It makes it easier for a converter manufacturer to get the converter spec right on the first try too.

 

[karolko]

Thanks Bison,

i looked up the MSRP on Precision's website and the price was ~$1000 difference after you setup up to anything larger than the 6776. I called a few people really quickly and he gave me the same answer. If you know where i can find one for cheaper, by all means, let me know.

 

[M2daa2da2xny]

bb last longer and spool quicker...

 

[d0n_3d]

The ball bearing turbos are definitely worth it if you got the cash to spend. I used to run a dual bb 67 P-trim on the street everyday with a 3200 stall and it spooled like a damn stock turbo. It would RIP the tires and run 125 mph at the track all day long. I just couldn't get traction with my drag radials! Then I split my stock block with it and car hasn't ran since

 

[Not Avg 6]

The ball bearing turbos are definitely worth it if you got the cash to spend. I used to run a dual bb 67 P-trim on the street everyday with a 3200 stall and it spooled like a damn stock turbo. It would RIP the tires and run 125 mph at the track all day long. I just couldn't get traction with my drag radials! Then I split my stock block with it and car hasn't ran since

Was that a stock untouched long block and what went wrong to make it split? Too much boost, detonation, ect...

 

[d0n_3d]

It was an all original untouched 120k mile shortblock being pushed to the max. Almost 30 psi of boost and it ran lean on the top end. I think my Walbro pump was to blame on that one. I had plenty of injector (65's). I've since went to an external pump setup.

The block split horizontally along the passenger and driver side lifter valleys. Not one person I have talked to has ever heard of this happening. The reason I knew something bad had happened was I heard a constant ticking noise at idle and thought I blew a headgasket. Pulled it apart and found the block split along the seams. The block shifted several thousandths to the point where the pushrods were rubbing a smooth spot on the block surface!

 

[ttypewhite]

I personally would not spend the extra $1000 to have a BB turbo. There was nothing special about my combo when it went 9's, and on the street with stock compression and a full weight car. My car suffered no ill effects in spooling (and in street trim kicked down just as fast as a Z06 to give him 20" eyes ) . I had a RJC boost controller that also helped the spool up time as well. I could instantly put the car side ways at will, and that was going through a TH400. My Dad has the same combo as mine with a 200R4 and bigger turbo and spools quicker then mine. My car is not a track car, it was built to be a street car first and foremost. A lot of people have their own opionions, and in this case nobody is right or wrong. It just boils down to personal preference. The AMS500 /1000 is another way to increase spool time as well. With todays technology at your disposal there are lots of options available to offset a BB turbo IMO. If my memory serves me correctly you plan on running 19 to 22 psi on the street daily. Well the higher you set your boost, the quicker it comes on. At 19 to 22 psi that will come on rather quickly without a BB turbo.

 

[Not Avg 6]

It was an all original untouched 120k mile shortblock being pushed to the max. Almost 30 psi of boost and it ran lean on the top end. I think my Walbro pump was to blame on that one. I had plenty of injector (65's). I've since went to an external pump setup.

The block split horizontally along the passenger and driver side lifter valleys. Not one person I have talked to has ever heard of this happening. The reason I knew something bad had happened was I heard a constant ticking noise at idle and thought I blew a headgasket. Pulled it apart and found the block split along the seams. The block shifted several thousandths to the point where the pushrods were rubbing a smooth spot on the block surface!

 

[bison]

I think my Walbro pump was to blame on that one. I had plenty of injector (65's). I've since went to an external pump setup.

I think it was more operator error than the pumps fault. Not too many can go 125mph at nearly 75psi through the stock fuel lines on a single 340. I wouldnt risk my engine running the pump on the edge.

 

[Not Avg 6]

I think it was more operator error than the pumps fault. Not too many can go 125mph at nearly 75psi through the stock fuel lines on a single 340. I wouldnt risk my engine running the pump on the edge.

What maximum speed limit is safe for a single 340 and alky?

 

[ttypewhite]

Grumpy & Mellisa went 9's with that setup and stock lines I believe.

 

[Pronto]

I could instantly put the car side ways at will, and that was going through a TH400. My Dad has the same combo as mine with a 200R4 and bigger turbo and spools quicker then mine. My car is not a track car, it was built to be a street car first and foremost.

What was your/your Dad's combos for non-bb journals?

 

[ttypewhite]

What was your/your Dad's combos for non-bb journals?

109 block
hydr roller cam
GN1 alum
RJC cooler
83lb
FAST system
good fuel system
70GTQ turbo non bb
mine TH400 his 200R4
AT! 9" converter from Billy Anderson
ATR 4 Bolt headers
Champion ported intake
etc

 

[bison]

What maximum speed limit is safe for a single 340 and alky?

Without alky id say 123-125mph at 70psi at full weight. Alky changes everything. Depends on which nozzles and the pressure. I have razors pump at 14v and run two m-15 nozzles. I had to pull a lot out of the v/e tables after adding the dual meth. Then i pulled a lot again after increasing the nozzle size. I would guess the alky is feeding around 125hp itself.

 

[Not Avg 6]

Without alky id say 123-125mph at 70psi at full weight. Alky changes everything. Depends on which nozzles and the pressure. I have razors pump at 14v and run two m-15 nozzles. I had to pull a lot out of the v/e tables after adding the dual meth. Then i pulled a lot again after increasing the nozzle size. I would guess the alky is feeding around 125hp itself.

THX

 

[Rell87]

I got what you need for cheap

I just recently got finished with my stage 1 build I was running a 70gtq 85. housing turbo but I wasn't satisfied with it so I brought a dual BB 74. The 70 that I'm selling is basically brand new it probably has around 500 miles on it which was ran at 13 psi. If your interested let me know and we can work something out. Here is the link to my car just so you can see that I'm not trying to sell you some junk. cardomain.com/ride/2308509

 

[Cme2fly]

I just recently got finished with my stage 1 build I was running a 70gtq 85. housing turbo but I wasn't satisfied with it so I brought a dual BB 74. The 70 that I'm selling is basically brand new it probably has around 500 miles on it which was ran at 13 psi. If your interested let me know and we can work something out. Here is the link to my car just so you can see that I'm not trying to sell you some junk. cardomain.com/ride/2308509

You were not happy with a 70q at 13 psi? Probably because you were making about 290 hp. How does that 74bb feel at 13 psi? 294 hp? :wink:

 

[Not Avg 6]

It was an all original untouched 120k mile shortblock being pushed to the max. Almost 30 psi of boost and it ran lean on the top end. I think my Walbro pump was to blame on that one. I had plenty of injector (65's). I've since went to an external pump setup.

The block split horizontally along the passenger and driver side lifter valleys. Not one person I have talked to has ever heard of this happening. The reason I knew something bad had happened was I heard a constant ticking noise at idle and thought I blew a headgasket. Pulled it apart and found the block split along the seams. The block shifted several thousandths to the point where the pushrods were rubbing a smooth spot on the block surface!

Alky and 60 - 65 injectors are go enough for a 67 series turbo?