Johnson or Crower Lifters

[Steve87GN]

Hey everyone,

After reading a lot of threads on here on lifters and seeing the general negative outlook on Morel lifters these days, I think I'm going to swap them out. My question here is which one should I go with, Johnson or Crower lifters? I can't find anything definitive to go one way or the other, which makes me think its pretty much a matter of opinion at this point. But, I'd rather ask than assume. I was looking at either the ST2112SBR-V6 lifters from Johnson or the 66266H-12 lifters from Crower, but am open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance everyone!

 

[Mr.Spool]

Hey everyone,

After reading a lot of threads on here on lifters and seeing the general negative outlook on Morel lifters these days, I think I'm going to swap them out. My question here is which one should I go with, Johnson or Crower lifters? I can't find anything definitive to go one way or the other, which makes me think its pretty much a matter of opinion at this point. But, I'd rather ask than assume. I was looking at either the ST2112SBR-V6 lifters from Johnson or the 66266H-12 lifters from Crower, but am open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance everyone!

For what kind of spring pressures
Problem is companies change who is driving the boat and we benefit or fail because of it

 

[TurboWh1]

I researched the crap out of this several months ago... I ended up going Crower because their product seemed to be higher quality, USA made. Crower assembled/built them in house so that was another plus for me. Like any product, it can fail but most failures seem to be due to low quality materials or lack of quality control.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Hey everyone,

After reading a lot of threads on here on lifters and seeing the general negative outlook on Morel lifters these days, I think I'm going to swap them out. My question here is which one should I go with, Johnson or Crower lifters? I can't find anything definitive to go one way or the other, which makes me think its pretty much a matter of opinion at this point. But, I'd rather ask than assume. I was looking at either the ST2112SBR-V6 lifters from Johnson or the 66266H-12 lifters from Crower, but am open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance everyone!

All 3 lifters you posted about I have used

 

[Steve87GN]

For what kind of spring pressures
Problem is companies change who is driving the boat and we benefit or fail because of it

For the spring pressures, I'm currently running a custom grind roller cam that's between the CC 212 and 218 (closer to the 218), but its a bit hotter than I want. So, I'm going to swap to the CC 206 roller cam. Running 1.55 RRs as well. For the valve springs themselves, I'm not 100% what they are as the builder wouldn't give me the exact P/N, just said they are double-beehive CC valve springs with a 10 deg. retainer.

In regards to company ownership, that seemed to be the theme when I was digging around.

 

[Mr.Spool]

For the spring pressures, I'm currently running a custom grind roller cam that's between the CC 212 and 218 (closer to the 218), but its a bit hotter than I want. So, I'm going to swap to the CC 206 roller cam. Running 1.55 RRs as well. For the valve springs themselves, I'm not 100% what they are as the builder wouldn't give me the exact P/N, just said they are double-beehive CC valve springs with a 10 deg. retainer.

In regards to company ownership, that seemed to be the theme when I was digging around.

You need to really know the spring pressures
You dont want the lifters collapsing if the spring pressure is very high.
I like Johnson lifters with duel springs when high pressure is needed.
If not there are less expensive options that will get things done.
But not having enough spring for what your trying to do is a bad thing

 

[Steve87GN]

So, how can I determine the valve spring pressures? I'm assuming this would mean having to take the springs off, right? Also, is there a downside if the lifter is stronger than what the valve spring pressures require?

 

[Mike T]

The crowers that You've listed are solid and probably not what you're looking for

 

[BEATAV8]

I started using Johnson USA lifters years ago and it’s the only thing I’ll use anymore (for a hydraulic set up anyways)
Side note: Johnson hy-lift is not Johnson USA. Different companies.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

So, how can I determine the valve spring pressures?

Start with firing the builder that refused the info??
Pull a couple and test.

 

[Mr.Spool]

For the spring pressures, I'm currently running a custom grind roller cam that's between the CC 212 and 218 (closer to the 218), but its a bit hotter than I want. So, I'm going to swap to the CC 206 roller cam. Running 1.55 RRs as well. For the valve springs themselves, I'm not 100% what they are as the builder wouldn't give me the exact P/N, just said they are double-beehive CC valve springs with a 10 deg. retainer.

In regards to company ownership, that seemed to be the theme when I was digging around.

I think you may want to rethink the cam swap.
212 or 218 is not over aggressive
I'm not sure what you mean by too hot
Sounds like alot of trouble to go through to go to a 206 cam.

 

[Ttype6]

My question here is which one should I go with?

Go with the lifters that have been performing well for you. You didn't say that the morels were doing anything you didn't like.

 

[Steve87GN]

Hey everyone. Sorry for the delayed response. Last couple days have been pretty nuts.

First off, @Mike T, good catch on the solid lifters. I completely missed that. Does Crower make a hydraulic roller lifter for the Buick V6?

In regards to the cam, I live in CA and do need to smog the car. Last time I tried, it wouldn't pass due to the inability to maintain a constant speed. During the 15 mph test, it would keep going between 15.1 and 14.9, which throws off the smog machine. Dumb, I know, but it is CA. So, my thought was to just go with a milder cam vs. throwing more money at this one.

In regards to the lifters, outside of being pretty noisy, I don't have a problem with them. But, the reputation that Morel has bothers me and I really don't want these taking out my motor.

And, yes, not too happy with the builder, but that's another story.

With that said, if you guys think I'm chasing down the wrong thing, let me know. Happy to start looking at other potential issues to get this car running right.

Thanks!!

 

[Mr.Spool]

Hey everyone. Sorry for the delayed response. Last couple days have been pretty nuts.

First off, @Mike T, good catch on the solid lifters. I completely missed that. Does Crower make a hydraulic roller lifter for the Buick V6?

In regards to the cam, I live in CA and do need to smog the car. Last time I tried, it wouldn't pass due to the inability to maintain a constant speed. During the 15 mph test, it would keep going between 15.1 and 14.9, which throws off the smog machine. Dumb, I know, but it is CA. So, my thought was to just go with a milder cam vs. throwing more money at this one.

In regards to the lifters, outside of being pretty noisy, I don't have a problem with them. But, the reputation that Morel has bothers me and I really don't want these taking out my motor.

And, yes, not too happy with the builder, but that's another story.

With that said, if you guys think I'm chasing down the wrong thing, let me know. Happy to start looking at other potential issues to get this car running right.

Thanks!!

Your chasing down the wrong path.
Like i said 224 isn't that aggressive and should maintain a very good idle.
The solid in one of cars idles as good as the hydraulic in the other.
If the idle is hunting or surging there can be a host of other things that need to be looked at.
15.1 afr is pretty lean on idle on some cars they dont want to be there and hunt but if you need it super lean to pass bullshit smog stuff I understand what you a trying to do.

 

[Mike T]

I haven't found hydraulic rollers for a Buick v6 on Crowers site but that doesn't mean they're not available. Only familiar with the part # you listed because I'm considering them for a stage II build.

I've heard a couple of reports about circlip failure in the Morels and some are noisier than others. My 109 has the standard travel Morels with circlips and they have been fine for 20,000k+ miles.
When I first built the motor they were a little louder than I liked. Setting the preload to .050 worked much better in my case. The claim is that oil viscosity over 10w 40 has a negative effect on the Morels. I've run them with 10w 40 and 20W 50 and can't see any difference.

Based on my own experience I would run them again because they are a decent value.

If I wasn't looking to save pennies I would buy the standard travel Johnson's because I believe it's a little closer to a foolproof setup and honestly better quality and tolerances overall.

If you're confident that you can set the lash to within a few thousands of an inch (must be exact and sounds easier than it actually is) then the short travel Johnson's would allow you to run a bit more spring pressure.

 

[Steve87GN]

Guys,

Thanks for all the input. I guess I'll stick with this set up for now and see if I can just dial it in a bit more. Looks like I might have TurboTweak on speed dial for a little bit.

I'll keep you guys posted what comes of everything.

 

[krazy86t]

If I wasn't looking to save pennies I would buy the standard travel Johnson's because I believe it's a little closer to a foolproof setup and honestly better quality and tolerances overall.

What Johnson part number for the standard travel hydraulic?

I found 2126SBR or 2126LSR (same?) although the Buick PN is 2112SBR-V6. 2126SBR is 0.300" taller, and "LSR" calls out "axel oiling"

TA Perf has V6 roller lifters (hydraulic and mech) - maybe Morel?

Thx!

 

[TIMINATOR]

Circlip problems occur with insufficient lifter preload, or valvetrain float. The circlips job is only for keeping the lifter from falling apart before installation. The deeper the preload is, the farther the plunger is from the circlip. They should never meet each other once installed. Deeper preload allows for more HP, as the plunger can't bottom out as far, losing lift and duration. On max effort projects, we lash up about a half turn from the bottom, or run solid rollers on Hydraulic roller cams, lashed at .005". Harleys run 20-50 oil, and a hot combo street engine can gain 2 to 5 HP lashed from the bottom on a 100hp engine.
TIMINATOR

 

[TurboTGuy]

What Johnson part number for the standard travel hydraulic?

I found 2126SBR or 2126LSR (same?) although the Buick PN is 2112SBR-V6. 2126SBR is 0.300" taller, and "LSR" calls out "axel oiling"

TA Perf has V6 roller lifters (hydraulic and mech) - maybe Morel?

Thx!

They are Johnson lifters, Mike sold me a set a couple years ago. They idle perfectly on a pretty lumpy Crower roller cam.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Idling perfectly on a pretty lumpy Crower roller cam means they are bleeding down at idle. How much oil pressure hot at idle? How big is yer cam? And how the hell are ya? I got my Comp cam today after 3 years!!!!!! Gimme a call!
TIMINATOR