from the recent tread about cali teachers pensions .. are unions the biggest ponzi sceams out there .. how does someone that put less than $150,000 into their pension over thirty years but is capable of taking $1million over ten years of retirement .. how is this funded .. makes ya say uhummmm . ive never had an investment return that good ..
i have a ? about unions
- Thread starter RIFF RAFF
- Start date
You must be talking about union OFFICIALS. I was in OCAW/PACE/USW for 34 years, last year my dues were over $1500. I just retired and get nothing from my union for a pension, however, my union got us the the right to have a 401k also got us a company match. Through diligent saving and investing, I was able to retire at 57.
Walker231T
Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2003
Most people in a union aren't going to chime in on this. I was in the UAW for 12 year when I worked at Ford. The union was a JOKE!! The only thing I ever saw them do was protect the person that was lazy and didn't want to come to work, or the drunk that was plastered on his job every night, or the weed smokers that had to light up every break, or the guy walking out of the plant with a lunch box pull of parts or tools, or the people that just plain were going to do that certain job. It was unbelievable what went on inside of our plant and the extreme measures the union would go to, to protect the people that were screwing up! UNREAL!!
As for the retirement/pensions our retirement were no where near what those Cali teachers are getting. I knew guys that had put in over 30 years that were drawing about 80k per year but nothing close to 1 million. Like S10 said maybe the officials might get that but I didn't know their pay structure. I do see a lot of what your are talking about in the news these days and wonder how in the hell they are retiring and drawing that much! I'd like to get in on that plan!!
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2001
The problem is that some executives take advantage (fraud the public) with their big retirement check, that skew the number of the regular guy state worker. When I retire, I expect to see approximately 50% of my paycheck per month. State investigators receive a 2.5%/year retirement calculation with no contribution to social security. If I work 10 years for the state, I receive 25% of my salary as retirement (the state and I share a retirement contribution) based on your final salary at retirement. Additionally, those (safety employees) that have vested in social security but stop contributing shall see their social security adjusted based on your final salary calculation, which could reduce your social security salary to zero. I personally don't belong to the union (fair share / agency fee objector), because of political philosophy. State unions also cannot strike, so what relivence (sp.?) do state unions serve. My work ethic is such: If the state accused me of doing something to jeopardize my job, I probably deserve to be dismissed, so what good is the union to me?
. I would like to think that most average Joe state employees work hard for their salary and will probably take home a retirement salary between 30-60,000 per year. so if some teacher is getting a million dollar salary over 10 years, I would sure like to know what I'm doing wrong.
. I would like to think that most average Joe state employees work hard for their salary and will probably take home a retirement salary between 30-60,000 per year. so if some teacher is getting a million dollar salary over 10 years, I would sure like to know what I'm doing wrong.Just cuz I always run my motor on other union posts....
Most union people are in labor unions like you were. It's a whole different ball of wax than the civil service unions. Surely they're just as bad, in as much as averaging in the useless among the righteous. A LOT has changed, so yes, it's obvious that you were union a Long time back. But a laborer's pension, which for the life of me I can't figure out why these programs haven't been discontinued, is a contractual obligation with a private corporate interest. Conversely the interest in a civil pension is the taxpayer. The union represents the worker, the worker is the govt, and the govt is the payee, but it ALL comes from a Third party. YOU AND ME! It's a horrific conflict of interest where it's mutually beneficial to pad the funds while simultaneously padding the political war chests of those most friendly to (the circle of fraud)!
I'd like to know what I'm doin wrong too! Man, if I could opt outa the SS system now, even as deep into my working life as I am, I would! Keep what I've paid in, I'm OUT! That's all I'd ask! I know I could do better with the rest of my money in the remainder of my working life than some govt program that I don't expect to be there for my retirement anyhow! The dems are gonna screw it all up, and the Reps just wanna privatize it so their banking friends can loot it further than every president since Reagan that started the feeding frenzy on the SS system in the first place.
Just let me out, that's all I'd want.....
Most union people are in labor unions like you were. It's a whole different ball of wax than the civil service unions. Surely they're just as bad, in as much as averaging in the useless among the righteous. A LOT has changed, so yes, it's obvious that you were union a Long time back. But a laborer's pension, which for the life of me I can't figure out why these programs haven't been discontinued, is a contractual obligation with a private corporate interest. Conversely the interest in a civil pension is the taxpayer. The union represents the worker, the worker is the govt, and the govt is the payee, but it ALL comes from a Third party. YOU AND ME! It's a horrific conflict of interest where it's mutually beneficial to pad the funds while simultaneously padding the political war chests of those most friendly to (the circle of fraud)!
I'd like to know what I'm doin wrong too! Man, if I could opt outa the SS system now, even as deep into my working life as I am, I would! Keep what I've paid in, I'm OUT! That's all I'd ask! I know I could do better with the rest of my money in the remainder of my working life than some govt program that I don't expect to be there for my retirement anyhow! The dems are gonna screw it all up, and the Reps just wanna privatize it so their banking friends can loot it further than every president since Reagan that started the feeding frenzy on the SS system in the first place.
Just let me out, that's all I'd want.....
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2001
The opt out of SS is not an option for safety employees, but a result of contract negotiations which eliminated contribution to SS in lieu of a 0.5 % increase in retirement calculation
berserker6
Assistant to the regional manager
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
Why was this thread posted in the turbo lounge? People come here to get away from the rhetoric. If they want that they can go to the political/religious forum.
just because its a simple ?
your a union man and this is all you have to say on this topic odd .. but i see how you defend the unions in other treads .. so tell me how do you put in less than $200,000 over thirty years but when you retire 50 ,60,70,% of your working salary .. by the way this is a relaxed off topic ? but i can see some getting uptight about it . and its not political or religious .. if i retire and recieve 50% of my salary and my salary was $100,000 year thats $ 50,000 a year . ten years of retirement = $500,000 thats $300,000 more than you put in over thirty .. how is this funded ?? looks fishy to me . and im a retired teamster package driver that will recieve a pension and medical . if i live that long ...
your a union man and this is all you have to say on this topic odd .. but i see how you defend the unions in other treads .. so tell me how do you put in less than $200,000 over thirty years but when you retire 50 ,60,70,% of your working salary .. by the way this is a relaxed off topic ? but i can see some getting uptight about it . and its not political or religious .. if i retire and recieve 50% of my salary and my salary was $100,000 year thats $ 50,000 a year . ten years of retirement = $500,000 thats $300,000 more than you put in over thirty .. how is this funded ?? looks fishy to me . and im a retired teamster package driver that will recieve a pension and medical . if i live that long ...
Just a Six??
OK! Who Farted??
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
I am not in the union but I know here in Toronto the Teachers Union owns the Leafs which is the #1 team for revenue. As they go up in price the union "I assumes" makes more $$$ & again "I assume" they spread some of the wealth?? Altho I bet the higher ups grab most of that profit & the regular teacher gets no where near what the Boss gets. But when averaged out it sounds like they are getting rich off retirement to most folks. I'll bet heavily that only a few grab the Big $$$ in the end.
The difference is the way private sector and public sector union contracts are approved.
Private sector, the money is coming out of the business owners pocket and that is who the union is negotiating with.
Public sector, the money is coming out of the taxpayers pockets and the contract are approved by elected officials that receive campaign funds from the unions.
THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE -- TOTAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
They sell pensions on returns from investments - total pie in the sky. Calif and all of its cities and countries are buried in billions of dollars of unfunded liability. That's pension money due that isn't in the bank. On a average employee pensions are costing CA govt (inc cities and counties) 50% of their budgets. That's average - so some are in real deep $hit.
Hazardous duty employees, cops, firemen, landfill workers, etc are on the program where they get 90% of highest pay after 30 years service as a pension. I read the other day where 3/4 of the firemen appeal their pensions and win disabled pensions which pay much more.
I had a employee about 6 years ago, he barely graduated from high school, his uncles and cousins are longshoremen and he tried that but didn't like going to work at 3am then sitting in a bar all afternoon. So at 19 he got a job with the local County as a laborer at the landfill (dump). Worked his way up to crew chief and sat in a environmental cab bulldozer all day. He retired a 42 and gets 50% for life plus full medical. I saw the checks ~$2400 a month
and that was ~6 years ago, the retirement is adjusted yearly for inflation. His retirement check is more than I will get in SS and they deduct $90/month for medicare and it's all income taxable.
And govt pensions are guaranteed where private pensions are not. I got a letter last year, lots of legalese, but I think that my AFL-CIO retirement might not be as much as if I had retired before that letter was issued.
Private sector, the money is coming out of the business owners pocket and that is who the union is negotiating with.
Public sector, the money is coming out of the taxpayers pockets and the contract are approved by elected officials that receive campaign funds from the unions.
THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE -- TOTAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
They sell pensions on returns from investments - total pie in the sky. Calif and all of its cities and countries are buried in billions of dollars of unfunded liability. That's pension money due that isn't in the bank. On a average employee pensions are costing CA govt (inc cities and counties) 50% of their budgets. That's average - so some are in real deep $hit.
Hazardous duty employees, cops, firemen, landfill workers, etc are on the program where they get 90% of highest pay after 30 years service as a pension. I read the other day where 3/4 of the firemen appeal their pensions and win disabled pensions which pay much more.
I had a employee about 6 years ago, he barely graduated from high school, his uncles and cousins are longshoremen and he tried that but didn't like going to work at 3am then sitting in a bar all afternoon. So at 19 he got a job with the local County as a laborer at the landfill (dump). Worked his way up to crew chief and sat in a environmental cab bulldozer all day. He retired a 42 and gets 50% for life plus full medical. I saw the checks ~$2400 a month
and that was ~6 years ago, the retirement is adjusted yearly for inflation. His retirement check is more than I will get in SS and they deduct $90/month for medicare and it's all income taxable.
And govt pensions are guaranteed where private pensions are not. I got a letter last year, lots of legalese, but I think that my AFL-CIO retirement might not be as much as if I had retired before that letter was issued.
Turbo-Archie
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
I remember when a political party didn't send this Country down the drain just to gain control of both houses and the executive branch.
Most educated people didn't vote for the "Change".
People are angry because they are no jobs and any potential jobs are being sent overseas and NOBODY SEEMS TO CARE.
I am old
Most educated people didn't vote for the "Change".
People are angry because they are no jobs and any potential jobs are being sent overseas and NOBODY SEEMS TO CARE.
I am old
shane
no anger .. when i was rank&file i know what i put in and what my company match was and when i see what i will get from my pension with bennys it just blows my kind .. if i live another 30 years after i retire ill get 4000 times what i put in .... how ??? i what to be educated ! please ..
no anger .. when i was rank&file i know what i put in and what my company match was and when i see what i will get from my pension with bennys it just blows my kind .. if i live another 30 years after i retire ill get 4000 times what i put in .... how ??? i what to be educated ! please ..
hello wisconsin
atleast two govoners have the right idea but lets just see how this all pans out and how they will be saved and by who .. should get pretty dirty in new jersey&wisconsin and somebodys gonna pay hope its not the tax payers anymore . im guessing most of the unions will implode in the next couple of months leaveing us with the bill
atleast two govoners have the right idea but lets just see how this all pans out and how they will be saved and by who .. should get pretty dirty in new jersey&wisconsin and somebodys gonna pay hope its not the tax payers anymore . im guessing most of the unions will implode in the next couple of months leaveing us with the bill
