Holy turbo destruction while engine break in!

[Lil Truck]

center mains

Thanks for posting the photo. I was interested in seeing the damage from the debris in the oil.

Also the caution that Steve V and Earl stated above is good! Plastigage may not be the answer when your trying to go tight at 0.0015 !!! I would hate to see you get to tight and end up with a complete rebuild.

It would be best to get a good experienced machinest to measure them and be safe. It does not appear the loose bearings 0.0025 caused the oil failure at the turbo.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Hypothetically speaking even if the mains were to come in at .005-.0018, this is the optimal range as indicated by the service manual? So hypothetically thinking there is about .002 of wiggle room? I can always err on the cautious side and only install one side of the bearing bringing the clearance into the .0020 area +/- .0001. In order for me to get the machinist tools into the block would require an engine pull and disassemble which I would not like to do.

 

[Lil Truck]

Hypothetically speaking even if the mains were to come in at .005-.0018, this is the optimal range as indicated by the service manual? So hypothetically thinking there is about .002 of wiggle room? I can always err on the cautious side and only install one side of the bearing bringing the clearance into the .0020 area +/- .0001. In order for me to get the machinist tools into the block would require an engine pull and disassemble which I would not like to do.

Yes, i do understand your situation, just wanted to be sure you had all the information! Hope all goes well for you!

 

[pacecarta]

Hypothetically speaking even if the mains were to come in at .005-.0018, this is the optimal range as indicated by the service manual? So hypothetically thinking there is about .002 of wiggle room? I can always err on the cautious side and only install one side of the bearing bringing the clearance into the .0020 area +/- .0001. In order for me to get the machinist tools into the block would require an engine pull and disassemble which I would not like to do.

thats .0005 and .0002 wiggle
.0025 is an all out race only clearance , i try to stay around .0018
you had good idle pressure chasing the bearing clearances isnt the answer

i would have that -3 hose checked for flow restriction . can you blow through it

 

[standupjskiguy]

I had very low oil pressure at idle on the 3800 in my mini van. It had spun a cam bearing.
Nobody has mentioned cam bearings. Maybe you are losing oil pressure there?

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

I doubt it from looking at most of the bearings already as they are pretty clean and neat

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

thats .0005 and .0002 wiggle
.0025 is an all out race only clearance , i try to stay around .0018
you had good idle pressure chasing the bearing clearances isnt the answer

i would have that -3 hose checked for flow restriction . can you blow through it

Yea...I understand your point. I could have better idle as 10 psi in a colder climate makes me a little nervous. I already changed out the AN3 line and the diameter size is quite different

 

[Lil Truck]

After reading over this thread a few times I would like to share this information with you. Just about 1 year ago I finished and installed a new 109 stock stroke motor with many similar parts and modifications. I am running the same turbo saver filter and my mains were thoroughly measured and assembled by a very competent turbo motor machinist. My mains are @ .0022-0023, hot oil pressure is 25psi @ 875 rpm after a pass it 20psi until temps return to normal. This motor now has 1500 miles and about 15 full passes. I did open the 1st filter as you did and found very fine metal, nothing like what your photo shows. If this had happened to me there are a few areas that make the most sense to consider. The oil pump setup, debris that may have been in the oil system that eventually blocked the turbo feed line, an oil fitting that possibly got blocked on installation from the turbo saver? The bearing clearance and turbo feed line size did not cause the turbo to fail.

 

[TR Custom Parts]

Please note I did not supply a line with the setup on Toby's car. Just the filter with the end drilled and tapped. No idea what happened after that. We assemble only -4 teflon braided Earls lines and use compressed air to make sure there are no flow issues.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Please note I did not supply a line with the setup on Toby's car. Just the filter with the end drilled and tapped. No idea what happened after that. We assemble only -4 teflon braided Earls lines and use compressed air to make sure there are no flow issues.

Hey Mark. You are coming across as I am placing blame on your setup. Please note that I made reference many times purchasing the line from gbodyparts. This is a technical question and forum to share ideas. If it comes up about some of the products you distribute do not take it as we are blaming the accessory

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

After reading over this thread a few times I would like to share this information with you. Just about 1 year ago I finished and installed a new 109 stock stroke motor with many similar parts and modifications. I am running the same turbo saver filter and my mains were thoroughly measured and assembled by a very competent turbo motor machinist. My mains are @ .0022-0023, hot oil pressure is 25psi @ 875 rpm after a pass it 20psi until temps return to normal. This motor now has 1500 miles and about 15 full passes. I did open the 1st filter as you did and found very fine metal, nothing like what your photo shows. If this had happened to me there are a few areas that make the most sense to consider. The oil pump setup, debris that may have been in the oil system that eventually blocked the turbo feed line, an oil fitting that possibly got blocked on installation from the turbo saver? The bearing clearance and turbo feed line size did not cause the turbo to fail. View attachment 251243

I agree. It had to be debris that closed the line somehow. That is what I'm gonna chock it up to.

 

[6cylboost]

How long before we get this car running again?

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

I have the rear main bearing to install. On the other three I achieved a good Plastigauge reading a smidgen tighter than .0015 in the car and another main a little more than .0015. I need to install the rear main...put on the timing cover and get my turbo back.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Make sure the crank turns freely when you put in the 1 unders. I've never compared plastigage to real life numbers before.

Earl, I plastigauged before the new bearings and after the new bearings installed. It shrinked the clearance to .0015, my readings before were .0025. I will plan on rotating the engine a bit, but as for a free spin, cannot do that in the car with the rods, etc still in tact.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Don't just assume that .001 bearings are going to be tighter than standards. Mic them. I have seen plenty of std's and .001's very close in size. Mixing and matching will get your clearences perfect.

I micd the new bearings and they were suprisingly close to one another. The standards I was using were .001 larger in size. It may be that I was using the same exact brand and the date of MFG was very close to one another.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Make sure the crank turns freely when you put in the 1 unders. I've never compared plastigage to real life numbers before.

Turned the engine over with a breaker bar and engine turns freely

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Geesh...anyone think this shit I am pulling out of the screen with brake cleaner cause pressure and obstruction? Now to find out where in the hell it came from. Looks like chunks of paint flakes

 

[Bigjsn250]

Is the lifter valley painted?

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

Is the lifter valley painted?

Nope but the top of the heads where the covers mate was painted and the texture of the paint chip is the same as the machine marks on the head. I use the felpro permaseal gasket that has fish gill type sealing surface. These type of gaskets do not contact the entire surface of the head. So the paint that was on the surface was able to lift up and make it's way into the pan.

 

[Toby_Goodmk]

all cleaned up and put back together. Oil pressure at idle 5w30 mobil 1.....18-20 psi. Oil pressure rises as it should when excel to 50 or more when on the throttle.