Guidance on my quest for more power

[ttribejr]

Looking for a little guidance and to make sure I am not forgetting anything.

1. I don't know for sure of my power goals, but I am guessing i will never go over 600rwhp. A little more than "too much" power for the street is perfect for me. This is based on my other cars. Car is a weekend cruiser, street light racer. When I say cruise, I have a hard time keeping my foot out of it. I do not have an ET goal.

2. I build cars in phases. I love to tune. I install a part, tune it, enjoy it, repeat. I don't want to do everything all at once as i get bored with them quickly and sell for a new project.

That said, this is where I am at so far:

1987 GN 66k miles all stock except for a TT street chip. Started making changes in 2016. Everything is healthy and maintenance is current.

Stock block/heads/turbo/intercooler, 20psi at the moment.

Already installed:

Comp 980 valve springs about 95# seat pressure
Pypes racepro catback and test pipe
3” intake pipe
Fast XFI on E85 w/ FP/OP logging
120# injectors, accufab FPR, Walbro 255 and hotwire kit


Parts on order or not yet installed:

Racetronix fuel line kit w/ flex fuel provisions
Racetronix 680 double pumper kit
M/T 275/60/15 drag radials
CK shift kit, trans filter upgrade and new lock up solenoid

I am thinking downpipe and Turbo are my next two upgrades. Followed by intercooler. I am having hell choosing a turbo because I don’t want to have to buy a 2nd turbo in a year or so when I do heads/cam and bottom end upgrades. Converter will be addressed after other stuff is sorted out.

Questions:

Is there anything I am forgetting before I move to bigger turbo?

Is there such a thing as a turbo that will maximize what I have now and still not completely bottle neck me when I get heads? And still spool ok with a reasonable converter? Or will it drive like crap and I would wish I had bought a smaller turbo now and a larger turbo later? Buying a second turbo would suck!

One way or another, i have bought mostly only expensive "supporting" mods so far, so I am ready to start making more power. Turbo seems like best bang for the buck at this point.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Best bang for the buck right now is cut and thread the stock actuator to tighten the rod and increase boost to 24 psi on the stock turbo.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Then do alum heads + roller cam + 6466 turbo + 3400 + stall PTC NLU 9.5 converter all at the same time.

 

[ttribejr]

I was able to get 23-24psi using xfi to control boost. but the power difference was hardly noticeable compared to 20psi. I figured it was just blowing hot air.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Is there such a thing as a turbo that will maximize what I have now and still not completely bottle neck me when I get heads? And still spool ok with a reasonable converter? Or will it drive like crap and I would wish I had bought a smaller turbo now and a larger turbo later? Buying a second turbo would suck!

No.heads cam and converter need to be matched with the turbo and fuel system.turbo should be selected on the power and response time you want.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I was able to get 23-24psi using xfi to control boost. but the power difference was hardly noticeable compared to 20psi. I figured it was just blowing hot air.

It is if your not droping intake air temps with meth.this is one of the reasons why the fastest stock turbo regal is still on 93/alky.FYI I have had cars that make 30 psi in good air with the stock turbo,intercooler and motor with 11 sec ets.

 

[TURBOELKY]

Down pipe, intercooler, bigger turbo (talk to Bison) and converter will make enough power to blow the bottom end out. Save your money unless you want to go all out, and if that's the case, but another block and build that so your car is never down.

 

[ttribejr]

Thanks for info and suggestions, please keep it coming.

Then do alum heads + roller cam + 6466 turbo + 3400 + stall PTC NLU 9.5 converter all at the same time.

This is what I am trying to avoid. I like doing it in steps and drawing it out and enjoying the build longer.

Down pipe, intercooler, bigger turbo (talk to Bison) and converter will make enough power to blow the bottom end out. Save your money unless you want to go all out, and if that's the case, but another block and build that so your car is never down.

Maybe he will chime in. I had asked him about buying a turbo over the phone. He wants to know MPH and weight of car for 1/4 mile and I don't have those answers. Full weight car, 500-600 rwhp potential (when its done)

yea, i know i can make the power to blow the bottom end. Just wondering how big I can go and still be able to spool it with my stock headed motor (and be able to keep boost low enough for now). I don't mind if its not "perfectly matched" right away. I just care that it continues to run really good and will be perfect in the end.

It is if your not droping intake air temps with meth.this is one of the reasons why the fastest stock turbo regal is still on 93/alky.FYI I have had cars that make 30 psi in good air with the stock turbo,intercooler and motor with 11 sec ets.

Yea, i can see that with meth. My IATs rise quickly at anything above 20psi. I have no plans to add meth. But I do plan on a front mount. I have been following Bison's posts about a vertical flow he was developing, but it might be a while before they are ready to go. I might grab that RJC street friendly 315. Ill give it a couple months to see if there is any progress on Bison's project.

 

[ttribejr]

also forgot to mention. I am thinking RJC on the DP. Also looking at TA. I just wont to make sure it can control boost and the puck doesn't seize shut. I read some posts about that.

 

[dynoman]

I would wish I had bought a smaller turbo now and a larger turbo later? Buying a second turbo would suck!

Buying new stuff , that's the fun part . It's not like an almost new hardly used smaller turbo isn't worth 75%-60% of what you paid for it , unless you plan on keeping it . Talk to Bison on upgrading after buying one from him . Also , there is the parts for sale section , I got the turbo that's on my car right now from the for sale section , $1475 turbo in great shape for $800 . Hell , the motor in my car ( long block ) was $3500 and dynoed at 700hp . The deals are out there . Good luck with your build . Sam

 

[bison]

Down pipe, intercooler, bigger turbo (talk to Bison) and converter will make enough power to blow the bottom end out. Save your money unless you want to go all out, and if that's the case, but another block and build that so your car is never down.

He will never blow the bottom end out with stock heads. Heads and turbo would open up the mass flow window. Then you'd have to make sure the fuel system is up to par


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[TURBOELKY]

He will never blow the bottom end out with stock heads. Heads and turbo would open up the mass flow window. Then you'd have to make sure the fuel system is up to par


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Ok I stand corrected. You will never blow the bottom end out with stock heads...

 

[achalmersman]

Ok I stand corrected. You will never blow the bottom end out with stock heads...

If you are controlling combustion properly and it's an OEM assembled bottom end its pretty hard to do it. Get knock and yea you'll blow a HG or crack a piston. Brian has been 9s repetitively on a factory bottom end and I doubt he's the only one. Regarding factory heads and cam I've been 10.99 on my unopened longblock with 93 /alky and that was pushing it hard and I had been pushing it hard for a while. If you blow the bottom end with factory heads and cam it wasn't because you were making too much power. It was because something went wrong and you weren't controlling combustion for one reason or another

No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

 

[TURBOELKY]

If you are controlling combustion properly and it's an OEM assembled bottom end its pretty hard to do it. Get knock and yea you'll blow a HG or crack a piston. Brian has been 9s repetitively on a factory bottom end and I doubt he's the only one. Regarding factory heads and cam I've been 10.99 on my unopened longblock with 93 /alky and that was pushing it hard and I had been pushing it hard for a while. If you blow the bottom end with factory heads and cam it wasn't because you were making too much power. It was because something went wrong and you weren't controlling combustion for one reason or another

No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however, a significant number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

As I said, I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying things in detail.

 

[earlbrown]

I guess I'll be the boring guy and mention a new timing set and rocker buttons.

 

[Mr.Spool]

This is what I am trying to avoid. I like doing it in steps and drawing it out and enjoying the build longer.

need to understand that 5/600rwhp will need a trans upgrade as well,hooking hard will require tires, axles,suspension upgrades,etc.inmo need to pick a goal and budget.10gs goes quick when you upgrade everything in the car.

 

[turbotroy]

Imop biggest bang for your buck=Alky. Why don't you want to run it?

 

[Mr.Spool]

Yea, i can see that with meth. My IATs rise quickly at anything above 20psi. I have no plans to add meth. But I do plan on a front mount.

if you want to upgrade slow grab a 44 with a tight garret.63 ex housing off brian then start turning the boost up 25psi+,dutt neck the intercooler and the car will go a lot faster your iats will drop as well over the stock turbo till you start really pushing the 44.either way you will need to address the trans in form of a shift kit or more stout build.

 

[ttribejr]

if you want to upgrade slow grab a 44 with a tight garret.63 ex housing off brian then start turning the boost up 25psi+,dutt neck the intercooler and the car will go a lot faster your iats will drop as well over the stock turbo till you start really pushing the 44.either way you will need to address the trans in form of a shift kit or more stout build.

Imop biggest bang for your buck=Alky. Why don't you want to run it?

Im not on alky because I run e85. I have the basic trans upgrades from CK (shift kit, TC solenoid, bottom feed filter, etc). I will do a full build on it when I hurt it.

How much are those 44s going for? I really might consider that. What hp do that cap out at and at what boost pressure on the typical stock longblock gn?

 

[Mr.Spool]

What hp do that cap out at and at what boost pressure on the typical stock longblock gn?

44 is rated in the neighborhood of 580hp,its typically pushes full weight cars to mid 11s with the fastest of the fast running low 11s and even high 10s.boost ranges 26 to 30+psi on stock longblock.the 44/49 spools super fast on a stock motor and is a lot of fun on a street.contact bison but its typically not a high dollar turbo.