First buick build

P

Paul69camaro

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Decided that I was done dealing with the hot air motor and that I'd like to get kicked out of the track (going for 11.40's no cage). I'm a newb at this so I've been trying to follow the advice of experienced people and information on this board. I bought a used complete 87 engine from a board member a while back and tore it town to the short block. It is a bone stock bottom end and the cylinder walls look perfect. I've decided to just put new rod, main and cam bearings in it and leave the rotating assembly and block alone. Any opinions on this? I also bought or have the following parts:

1. CNC ported GN1 heads and matched intake
2. Flat tappet Comp 212/212 cam with crower's cam saver lifters
3. ATR headers w/ 3" TH DP
4. TE44 turbo (I know its small but I rally hate lag)
5. Razor's ALKY
6. Easton Front Mount
7. 50 lb injectors with TT chip
8. PTS 9X11" billet 3200 stall

I'm really just looking for any advice as to putting this thing back together, and hear opinions on this combo. I'm not asking you guys to tell me how much power etc I'll make. I'm just more concerned about building it right the first time and making sure it lives for a good while. I know the heads are overkill but it would be nice to make good power at lower boost levels. I also need some rocker arms and I've heard about some stock style rockers that are heavier duty but don't know where to get em. Any ideas? I'm pretty much out of money at this point so 600 dollars for roller rockers is out of the question.
 
Save money and find someone selling some ported iron heads. Port match the intake yourself. With that money saved get a roller cam 206-206 or stick with a flat tappet but risk it wearing out, skip the frontmount, a dutt neck stocker will get you there or find a used stretch ic. Turbo is good, 50s are good, alky is good, TT chip good. Skip the 9/11, a Pat's 12" HD with antiballoning plates 2800 stall will work fine and much cheaper. Skip the roller rockers. Don't be afraid of stock stuff. You're not building the bottom end so you'll never need the breathing or hp capabilites of GN1s.
 
Pronto, thanks for the quick reply. I already have these parts I listed so there really isn't too much of a point for me to deal with selling it to get the cheaper parts you mentioned. Why would you say skip the Easton intercooler? Is the 212/212 too big? I figured that would be a good match for the heads and convertor. Also, too make sure I'm understanding you, it's ok for me to use my stock rockers on the gn1 heads? Thanks again

Paul
 
Frontmounts are notorious for causing overheating and not needed to run mid 11s. The cam is not too big but since the stocker is fully capable of running the times you are looking for I feel it better to stay closer to stock. Same goes for the heads. Stock rockers for the stock heads. Rollers won't fit under stock valve covers without spacers or aftermarket covers. The stock heads need to be clearanced for rollers too. I believe the GN1s are pedastal mount. Someone more versed in them can confirm that.
 
Thanks again Pronto. You may be right, that intercooler is really thick. I do have an aluminum radiator with the ramcharger dual fans so I may still give that a try, if it doesn't work out I may trade off for a stock location setup. I also forgot to mention that I bought Champion valve covers as well so clearence for rockers won't be an issue, it's just the cost! Ideally It would be nice to run mid to low 11's under 20 psi. I don't know if it's possible but I'd like to keep a real safe tune on it. Chances are I'll get greedy, upgrade the turbo and go for 10's. Any body else have any opinions? Am I being stupid with this build?
 
Pronto is spot on! Ported irons are plenty. If you're going to order a chip/injector combo 60's or even 80's will give you room to grow. A hyd. roller will reduce the possibility of flat lobes. Also, a good slic will get you where you need to be without all the side issues of a front mount.
 
Paul69camaro said:
Thanks again Pronto. You may be right, that intercooler is really thick. I do have an aluminum radiator with the ramcharger dual fans so I may still give that a try, if it doesn't work out I may trade off for a stock location setup. I also forgot to mention that I bought Champion valve covers as well so clearence for rockers won't be an issue, it's just the cost! Ideally It would be nice to run mid to low 11's under 20 psi. I don't know if it's possible but I'd like to keep a real safe tune on it. Chances are I'll get greedy, upgrade the turbo and go for 10's. Any body else have any opinions? Am I being stupid with this build?
Click to expand...

NOthing wrong I see. Iron heads may be less problematic than aluminum ones so I understand, but I don't hear anybody complaining about their GN1s. Haven't heard too many complaints about front mounts causing overheating lately, either, and I'm in Florida. Just go forward, and if you can improve the combination, change what you don't like. ;)
 
I'd have to agree with RRT. In deference to what Pronto has posted the front mounts are not notorious for overheating. If you had a crappy non maintained cooling system then yes. But you've got a good radiator, and the dual fans so you should be good to go. I run a re-cored stock radiator and dual fans with no cooling issues, and have just about the biggest front mount you can run.

What can be guaranteed is that a good front mount will make a HUGE difference in charge air entering engine, this also guarantees you can run more boost than you otherwise could. As an example, on a hot (high 80s) day, I can make a good quarter mile blast, and never record manifold temps over 99* I can pretty much guarantee that nobody with a SLIC can say that. But that's all another subject.

IMHO you've got a good combo going together there!

I also put my last block together the way you are. Just new bearings and back together. I didn't really even change cam bearings. They looked good.

I'm doing the same thing with my numbers matching block now. New bearings (matched to obtaine good clearances) for mains and rods, and new cam bearings, and a light cylinder hone (yours shouldn't need the hone).
 
I think Pronto thought that was the stuff he "wants" to buy. Pronto, looks like he "has" the stuff listed. May as well use it now.
 
I'd also skip changing the cam bearings unless there is a known specific problem with them. No sense getting on a first name basis with your local machine shop unless absolutely necessary.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. The only reason I wanted to change the cam bearing was because the front one looked like it has a little grove in it but maybe that's normal. Major Nutz, I just saw your signature and like what you've accomplished, 10's at 20 PSI. Thanks again guys.

Paul
 
The "groove" in the front cam bearing is caused by someone installing an aftermarket cam that has a groove in the cam journal to tansfere oil to the drivers side oil gallery. The 109 block doesn't need the groove in the cam because the block has a groove behind the cam bearing. Slide your new cam in and check for clearance issues. You can change the cam bearing, but make SURE you purchase the bearing set for the year of your block, early blocks use a different bearing. In other words, the groove in the bearing is probably not an issue.
I would suggest ditching the ATR headers and get a decent set of stockers or TA headers. The ATR headers will hurt performance, not help. Also step up to a bigger turbo. A minimum of a 54 series turbo will help also. Your heads will flow alot of air, use it. You can horse trade some of your parts. The converter will be happier with a bigger turbo. Use it too. The stock block is good to 10.70's with out too much trouble, just tune it right. Build the car to run high tens, then it'll convince you to install a roll bar. Be safe. 11.40 is still pretty dangerous. Fix the front brakes, too. Accelerating is optional, stopping is manditory. Shocks, suspension busings, ect. NEED to be up to snuff, too.
 
If you already have the GN1s then make sure you have them checked for cracks. Lots of them do. I don't have much issue with the slic b/c of alky. If you have the parts then use them but I'm from the stay close to stock to run 11s school. It's not real hard with a mostly stock setup if you are patient and have the whole package working together.
 
Turbofabricator, I agree about upgrading the brakes and suspension. I'm planning on doing the ats spindles and z06 brakes after this engine is in. I still don't want a roll bar, I have one in my 69 camaro and think that it may actually be more dangerous when not wearing a helmet.

Paul
 
Turbofabricator, I agree about upgrading the brakes and suspension. I'm planning on doing the ats spindles and z06 brakes after this engine is in. I still don't want a roll bar, I have one in my 69 camaro and think that it may actually be more dangerous when not wearing a helmet.

Paul
 
Well, The GN1's I had are cracked... So now I'm back in the market for another set of heads. I know it's been discussed several times and i've searched and read endless counts of threads about TA heads, Ported irons and the new GN1's. I still don't really understand why people go with ported irons at $1250 when I can go with the new unported GN1's that outflow them for $1600. The TA's look nice too especially since they seem to be very reliable but I'm attracted to the 14 bolt GN1 heads using the scorpion rockers. I understand they may be a little noisy but its a very similar setup to my 69 camaro and I think they are fine. Is there any reason not to go this route? Remember that I'm looking to make good power but stay close to 20 PSI.

Paul
 
Can't you just weld the heads?


Also, if the bearing looks like this, you need to replace it..


..
 

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Turbo-Archie, Thanks for the pic, luckily the cam bearing does not look like that. Turbofabricator was correct about the groove, it had some aftermarket reed cam installed and is why it had the groove. As far as the heads, the guy I bought them from is a very stand up guy and offered to give me a refund. Since they are the older style GN1's that are prone to cracking, I figured I'd just purchase either the newer style GN1's or a set of TA's. Plus, since all of these aluminum heads are made of 356-T6, welding on them makes them weaker in the heat effected zone since they loose the heat treatment (the T6). I really don't know if they re-heat treat them after welding but I just prefer not to mess with it.

Paul
 
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