212 vs 206 roller cam

TireFryer

The New Kid
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
I have a lead on a 206/206 roller cam for a steal in today’s market. EVERYONE says just get a 212/212. But my question is, Is the tiny bit of extra lift on a 212 and tiny bit of extra duration worth an extra $200??? Street car, my mods are in the signature. New motor will have champ ported iron heads and intake. Subject has been beaten to death I’m sure, but wanted some modern opinions as all the other threads on this subject are from 2004 haha
 
There is not much difference between the two. Especially if it is a street car and occasional track. If you have a legit good deal on a 206 I would just get that.
 
I have a lead on a 206/206 roller cam for a steal in today’s market. EVERYONE says just get a 212/212. But my question is, Is the tiny bit of extra lift on a 212 and tiny bit of extra duration worth an extra $200??? Street car, my mods are in the signature. New motor will have champ ported iron heads and intake. Subject has been beaten to death I’m sure, but wanted some modern opinions as all the other threads on this subject are from 2004 haha
Which 206?
There were 206s that had more lift than a 212
 
Which 206?
There were 206s that had more lift than a 212
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258HR
 
lots of 206 rollers, if its off the shelf Comp cams grind its good reliable goto cam. But all 206s regardless of the lob choice or LS angle will work good in your future build
 
Why?
OK, once more.
496 valve lift.
Heads flow to about. .510, on a flow bench with the valve HELD STATIC at that lift.
Running engine, valve opens to any lift on the curve, airflow has to catch up to that lift, by then that valve is higher and the airflow now wants to catch up to that opening, (.496), but the valve is at that lift for only a few degrees and then is closing before the airflow has caught up to the max lift flow.
With a typical combo, the lift needs to be around .060 - .080" or more than the heads max flow lift with a roller, and even higher with a flat tappet cam due to its shorter duration at max lift. Often about .100 more to max out the port.
Harvey Crane knew that in the late 1960s.
His street and race cams had more lift than others, but the "wisdom" of the time was all the extra lift did was kill the springs faster. Spring tech is much better in the last 50 years, but the "old wives tales" persist.
With heads airflow maxed at .520 on my heads, I run .582/.588 custom roller (1.65 rockers). I know my ports are maxed out!
If I go to a bigger cam, I need only to add duration.
TIMINATOR
Make this a "sticky"?
 
I would have to dig up the cam card, but I think I have the same cam as what the OP is looking at, works well for my combo. I run stock TA heavy duty rockers, comp 941 springs, Johnson lifters, ported stock heads.
Simply stated, I think the turbo/converter combo will have way more impact. Without doing a science experiment, the common theme for these cars in street applications, in the HP range the OP is looking for is the cam (so long as it is not something really goofy) has not had a lot of impact, so long as good fuel is used and the boost can be turned up.
The heads on these cars are not good, so keeping the volumetric flow low, and making power with boost has worked well, so long as the tune is good.
That said, with a max effort set of heads, I wonder what would be a reasonable max RPM in street applications. Maintaining reliability and not getting crazy on valve train and rotating parts. i.e. trade higher boost/lower rpm for lower boost/higher rpm. The only benefit I could see would maybe a compromise between higher cylinder pressure or higher rpm could net longer component life. A max effort engine would be looking to maximize everything for power, so not talking about that.
Now the optimum turbo/converter would be different for each goal, most of what I have seen on the board has been go for boost, some do run higher rpm, but I have not seen many go for more than low to mid sixes on stock blocks, maybe I have not paying attention.
The thing with the cam, to me anyways, is optimizing it is not the same as an NA car in that you are not trying to maximize around a fixed pressure infinite source of air (the atmosphere), you are using a variable pressure with a finite source of air (the compressor). You can max a compressor over a wide range of cam profiles, you will get some differences, but not like an NA car. Or you can change the compressor, and get a lot more power with the same cam. Car/converter setup has to match, but that is also true for any car combo.
If you are trying to tickle the most out of a car, then all of it has to be optimized, tested, and tuned. For a 550 hp application, 206, 212, 210 … all are going to work.
What could really be a fun topic and science experiment would be seeing what is out there today for the street that would allow getting the back pressure low while still maintaining boost response. If, and a big if, you could get a responsive turbo with the boost to pressure ratio close to 1:1, then maybe cam potential would change. If less than 1:1, that would be awesome, but that is a pipe dream for a low hp street car.
 
No arguments with anything you said.
My point was using a faster ramp rate cam allows the same bottom end and lower mid range, but make more upper mid range and upper end HP at any given shift RPM.
It also allows use of a smaller head to make the same upper end power as a non lift maxed out bigger head, but with more torque and power everywhere else.
A turbo or blower engine makes a certain percentage more power than the same non boosted engine.
The more power you can make N/A, the more power you will make boosted.
Of course there are ways to give up some N/A power to make more boosted power, but less lift and a slower ramp rate aren't them.
Before the city encroached on my business and they forced me to sell the engine and chassis dynos, I have done that "science experiment" many times.
I have managed to keep and use my bike dyno cautiously so far, and I still experiment on my Harley.
I am retired now, but I still
have my flow bench and machine equipment too, and am still learning, even at my advanced age. Ya gotta have a hobby!
TIMINATOR
 
I buzzed my engines to 6 grand with the 212/212 flat tappet I ran...but I ran some serious spring pressures.
Guessing we’d all have dropped jaws if we heard the spring pressures lol…

Nigel- Thank you for the longer post. Lots of good information.
 
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