Enlighten me please

[turbohcar]

Hi, I'm new to the site and despite the fact I don't have a turbo Buick I have a couple friends that do. My choice of wheels is a 91 Eagle Talon AWD. Now, the whole purpose of this thread is that I'm needing a little help. My old 14b stock turbo is near frying itself and I thought maybe a slightly used Garrett buick turbo would work (with the exception of the exhaust housing and injectors). Now what I am thinking is, pick up a slightly used turbo, Garrett flanged exhaust manifold, Garrett exhaust housing and 02 housing, and all the fittings and lines I would need. I've got a FMIC that I can use and 2.5in intercooler piping along with a fresh rebuild of the motor and I would need a set of injectors too.

Now here's where you come in. I need to know what kind of boost the stock turbo runs or even if you think this plan is feasible. I'm wanting to go cheaply but safely and still have a reliable setup to drive 3-4 times a week. Any input will be appreciated so thanks in advance.

P.S.: Usually I see injectors rated by flow of cc's not lb/min. Is there a conversion chart for this somewhere? Or am I just totally out of my mind? Thanks

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I have a 95 tsi, and have thought the same thing. I have a 20k mile stock gn turbo in perfect shape. The problem I thought of is that my stock tsi turbo doesn't start spooling until about 3200 rpm. The stock gn turbo doesn't start spooling till about 22-2400 rpm on a 3.8 liter engine, which is twice the size of the dsm motor. I think all said and done you'd end up spending more trying to fab up the gn turbo and then it would be too big, but I really don't know a whole lot about the dsms. Mine is still stock after 4 years. I need to do some mods, but the first thing that has to go is the turbo and spending $1000 on a little turbo is hard to do when I can get a big turbo for the gn for $600.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Talk to mike at Full Throttle Speed (link on first page) he has been in the gn business for a while and is also in the dsm aftermarket business, so he should be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[turbohcar]

The main problem with slapping on a GN turbo right to your DSM that I can see is the fact you have to have tons of supporting mods first in order to support that turbo. I am told the stock GN turbos are T3 Garretts (not sure what trim) which would be perfect for what I'm trying to do. As long as you aren't afraid to spend the money to support it, I'd think it's feasible but the honest to god truth is I can get T3/T4s for anywhere from 650-850 bucks and if I can't get a GN turbo for less than that I won't bother. Just a thought.

If you need any ideas for that DSM give me a buzz. My friend has a 95 TSi AWD in the shop right now getting the whole works. He's spent over 10 grand on it and not all of it's even all bought yet.

 

[jastrckl]

well, the dsm turbos that aren't t25 (too small) are mitsu, and they're clocked and setup differently, so you'll be doing all sorts of weird work with bracketry and rotating housings. If I were you, I'd go with a mitsu 16g or whatever it is.

For the injector conversions and other handy info, go here.
http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Yeah, I know there are a lot of mods that need to be done to support a bigger turbo. Thats why I haven't done anything yet. Not ready to drop $3k just to run 13s. I know with the 1st gens you could do a few cheap mods and run pretty quick, but the 2nd gen turbo was too small to start with. So, with injectors, fuel pump, intake and exhaust on top of a turbo, I've held off since my gn will go 12.0 in street trim. The warrenty just ran out on my tsi, so I'm starting to think about it again.

What I'm thinking of is a 16g, injectors, fuel pump, intake, exhaust and water or propain injection. I want to keep it simple since I already have a street beast.

 

[turbohcar]

While a 16g is nice, I'd rather see a little more power out of that car. The 16g is NOT a direct bolt up but it is very close. You need the 95-99 second generation exhaust manifold and different oil/water feed lines for it. My argument against the 16g is it's a mediocre turbo. Running a 16g you're gonna keep with most camaros and some of the stock vettes and things of that sort but you'll never really show'em who's boss. There's nothing better than to see the look on the face of a vette driver when he just got beat by a four banger...by five carlengths. Plus, even if I were to upgrade to a 16g I would have to make the same modifications I would if I were putting a T3/T4 hybrid Garrett on, just in healthier moderation. Either go big or go home, at least I like to think so.
My friend with the 95 TSi bought a deal on eBay for a T3/T4 .50 trim, tubular exhaust manifold, Tial wastegate, all for $810 bucks. Seems like a good deal but I really don't like trusting eBay for things as important as this.

jastrckl, thank you for the link

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

Brett, you silly boy...if you want a fast car just call me and I'll take you for a ride in Mr. Buford T. Regal Seriously, I don't know how much easier/cheaper this project would be, you may be better off sticking with a DSM turbo...but the thought of having GN parts on your car may make it think its faster

just remember----the turbo goes woo woo!

 

[gn4u2c]

for a strret car get a evo III turbo and port it. I'm putting down 335hp to the wheels on a front wheel car with that turbo. slowboy racing has them for % and change. for track get a 50 trim BB Peace!

 

[FWD turbo]

A good person to talk to about this would be Bruce at aggressive performance. I know one of the guys that used to work in the shop actually put an 86/87 GN turbo an an all wheel drive talon. He said it made alot of power when the boost came on - like spinning all 4 tires and goin' all over the road when he shifted gears. I've never been into those cars, so I can't give you any real details, but I'm sure Bruce would be able to tell you, since he used to have a talon himself. If you are serious, try giving him a call.

 

[turbohcar]

Wow, it's been awhile since I last posted here. Things are still going in the same direction for the car but, I don't think I'll be going with a GN turbo on it. It was a nice thought but it's bit too much fabrication in relation to the options I have. Future plans make for a .50 Trim Garrett ball bearing turbo with the necessary supporting modifications. Right now I'm still trying to get the car on the street (clutch pedal problems) and show Tom Tom Turbo who's boss . Unfortunately, he just got a transmission rebuild and will probably be leaving me behind now that his transmission doesn't shift like my grandmother's 88 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight.

BTW, with that .50 Trim and the supporting mods, I should be able to spin all four tires at cruising speeds :biggrin: .....lets just hope nothing breaks.

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

Are you familiar with what an 86 Regal looks like from behind? If not, you should take a picture while you are back there! That AWD may buy you a holeshot and the lead to about 30, and then you are mine :biggrin:

 

[turbohcar]

What's that Tom? You like to wash my turbo AWD Regal killer? :biggrin:

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

oh, wanna play dirty huh?

 

[turbohcar]

I told you to stop posting pictures of my mom and I at Christmas time! BTW, don't be mad at me because I showed all your Buick buddies that you like to wash my import because it's so much more superior than Beauford T. Regal.

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

you've left me no choice...I must now purchase a PT-88 turbo and build a stage 2 motor so I can be through the traps before you hit the 1/8th mile


As far as the superiority thing...I'm putting the slicks on when we pick up the car Sunday and our first stop will be your house so I can paint two lines across your garage floor!

 

[turbohcar]

You still have to be able to launch mister 2.60 60ft time!

 

[turbohcar]

Besides, the last time you tried to do a burnout with the slicks on the Beauford wouldn't even spin 'em without some water laid down first.

 

[Tom Tom Turbo]

remember, you mess with the bull and you'll get the horns!

that guy with the Ram Air LS1 T/A with a 150 shot and drag radials thought he was the $hit too and he got owned

maybe you should pick on my sister's Stratus

 

[turbohcar]

I believe the last time we went to the track you ran a 9.51 in the 1/8th with a 2.6 60ft? If you're sister's Stratus can run faster than that then yeah, I'll race her. Too bad my car hasn't been in any shape to be seen at the track :frown: . Yeah, I'll admit it, I'm three years deep in a restoration that forced me to replace everything but the wiring harness and chassis and it hasn't seen a title or insurance in those three years but your time will come Tom. My turbo may be smaller, but I've also got two less cylinders to fill.