Dynamic EFI EBL Flash System For GM Sequential V6 Boosted Engines....

TTipe said:
What is the data point resolution for afr vs rpm??
Click to expand...

There is an AFR versus RPM and VACuum table. This is used whenever in open loop.

By RPM it is from 0 through 6400 by every 400 RPM.

By vacuum it is from 80 KPa through 0 by every 10 KPa.

It is a 17 x 9 table.

There is an "AFR Multiplier vs CTS" table that is also applied to the above table. This is to compensate for colder/hotter engine. It goes from -40 F/C through 151 C / 304 F. By every 12* C (17 entries)

When in PE (WOT/boost) mode there is another AFR table that is used. This is a smaller table as high resolution isn't required. At 8 entries it goes from 800 through 6400 RPM by every 800 RPM.


The volumetric efficiency (VE) tables are larger with even higher resolution. This provides for much better driveability and a smoother running engine. Note that the VE tables are always in use when the engine is running. Open, closed, or in PE mode, the VE tables are being used.

They are split up between three tables. They go from 400 through 8,000 RPM.

With high resolution of every 100 RPM between 400 and 2,000 RPM.

Then by every 200 RPM between 2,000 and 3,600 RPM.

Then by every 400 RPM between 3,600 and 6,000 RPM.

Then by every 500 RPM between 6,000 and 8,000 RPM.

The second axis is load, or MAP in KPa. Here all three tables are the same: 20 through 70 KPa by every 5 KPa.

Then 70 KPa though 100 KPa by every 10 KPa.


When in boost there are PW multiplier tables (2). These run from 0 through 8,000 RPM, by every 400 and then at 6,000 RPM by every 500 RPM.

KPa is by every 10 KPa with a 2-bar MAP, and every 20 KPa with a 3-bar MAP.

These PW multiplier tables can add or subtract fuel. So there is a lot of versatility. May not think that fuel would need to be removed, but with the MAP value as part of the PW equation, fuel is automatically added as the boost increases.

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
How long before this is ready for sale?

Will this unit control a trans controller for a 6L80?
 
RmvBfrFlght said:
Not sure. Don't want to post a date and not make it. Then I'll feel as though I'm working at Microsoft :)



No, no 'E' transmission controllers yet.

RemoveBeforeFlight
Click to expand...

I thought someone said it had electronic trans control? If no E-series then what electronic transmissions?

,Dan
 
Sounds like too manyVE tables and variables, an average tuner is going to get lost in this..
 
Megasquirt has those controls built in as well then.. I thought you meant E which the breakout board will handle.

Dan
 
norbs said:
Sounds like too many VE tables and variables, an average tuner is going to get lost in this....
Click to expand...

EBL's VE (volumetric efficiency) Learn feature alleviates 90% of the tuning. The system essentially tunes itself....
 
Daniel Jost said:
Megasquirt has those controls built in as well then.. I thought you meant E which the breakout board will handle.

Dan
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why the comparisons to the MegaSquirt. The EBL Flash systems and the MS are worlds apart. The MS being a:

"The MegaSquirt® family of EFI controllers (including MS-I, MS-II, MicroSquirt, and the MS-II Sequencer) are intended as educational projects for those who want to learn about electronic fuel injection. They are experimental Do-It-Yourself programmable electronic fuel injection controllers that you build yourself." (taken from: Megasquirt FAQ).

From:

What is Megasquirt

While the EBL Flash systems are based on proven GM ECMs and proven firmware. Not an experimental design that:

"Do not use in an aircraft which, if the unit fails or ceases to operate properly, can fall out of the sky. Do not use on a boat where, if there is a failure, results in a situation where the vessel is stuck in a hurricane and sinks to the bottom of the ocean."

From:

MegaSquirt FAQ Main Page

So done with the comparisons to the MS, it can't be compared.

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
So then what would the typical TT chip owner gain from using this system?Since it tunes itself for many parameters, which ones would the average owner want to mess with?
 
Daniel Jost said:
Exactly as I said before but someone insisted on making comparisons. :)
Click to expand...

Dan, comparison's are of course always going to be made. We can compare the Megasquirt with the EBL the same way that we can compare the XFI with Holley HP Dominator. Comparison's are always good for people who are essentially new to the system, or who are just new to tuning in general. Every system has an advantage as well as a disadvantage. If you reinspect my posts, I have already given credit to Megasquirt where the credit was due, that being the installation of Megasquirt in a vehicle that either didn't come with some form of fuel injection from the factory, and/or a vehicle with an engine and transmission coming from another vehicle entirely. However, EBL is a direct replacement for the stock GM ECM, it essentially converts proms to flash, and it's tunability and features are limitless. In retrospect, I am pretty sure that Bob will explore an e-trans feature in the future, and perhaps even individual cylinder air/fuel control, but I am getting way ahead of myself here. With the ability to maintain the stock GM harness, and with the amount of tunability and features that the EBL has in a whole, there really is no comparison being made by me.... :)
 
I'm glad this stuff keeps coming up, because it helps me understand it better...

I'm going to have lots of fun learning how to make it work when I get home. One thing I don't QUITE understand though, is the MAF part of the system. The ECM that this is based on used a MAF, right? Is it completely not needed now, like it was programmed out of the ECM? Is this now a speed density system?

Also, I realize that this is made to be an SFI system like the 3800 was, but you can also switch to run batch fire? Will this just be an option that you check or uncheck when you have the laptop plugged in? I know its a lot of questions, but this is a lot to take in at the beginning.

I'm still going to buy one when it comes out! :)
 
Pronto said:
So then what would the typical TT chip owner gain from using this system?
Click to expand...

Tuning via flash is so much more linear and precise as opposed to having the ECM lying on the floor and swapping chips to accommodate a new modification. Whether it's a new turbo, new injector size or new cam, all tuning to compensate for the increased air and/or fueling can be done right there on the spot, whether at home, or at the track where every tenth of a second in the quarter mile counts. This isn't to take anything away from chip burning, but flash tuning makes it so much more easier for the tuner....

Pronto said:
Since it tunes itself for many parameters, which ones would the average owner want to mess with?
Click to expand...

.... just to touch on the entire aspect of it, it depends on the type of O2 sensor being used, whether Narrow Band or Wide Band. A standard NB will allow the VE to learn only during closed loop fueling, whereas as WB will allow the VE to learn throughout all fueling tables, including wide open throttle. To start, it would simply be a matter of choosing a BIN from the BIN folder (base calibration) as close to the current tune as possible, or selecting a starter BIN. Flash the selected BIN into the ECM, start a datalog and VE Learn session, start the engine, then allow the ECM to make it's corrections. You'll want to keep the engine at part throttle during this process, no wide open throttle pulls just yet. After about ten minutes of driving you'll want to check your VE Learn, and as you see the percentage of correction getting closer and closer to where you want to be, you'll then flash that BIN into the ECM and start another datalog and VE Learn session. After a few sessions of this the engine is essentially tuned, and you can then fine tune for whatever you may need, whether for wide open throttle, or vehicle driveability.
 
KrisW said:
One thing I don't QUITE understand though, is the MAF part of the system. The ECM that this is based on used a MAF, right? Is it completely not needed now, like it was programmed out of the ECM? Is this now a speed density system...?
Click to expand...

I believe Bob will be adding, or has possibly already added, high frequency MAF code making it able for users to run either LTX and/or LS1 MAF sensors. The options really are limitless, and features are constantly being added. You could also choose to utilize the 1 Bar MAP option with 3 Bar MAP if you want to toss the MAF entirely....

KrisW said:
Also, I realize that this is made to be an SFI system like the 3800 was, but you can also switch to run batch fire? Will this just be an option that you check or uncheck when you have the laptop plugged in?
Click to expand...

.... you can run batch fire mode with the EBL Flash and EBL P4 Flash, with the former being non user selectable and the latter being user selectable. At this time though SFI-6 though will incorporate sequential fuel injection only, but I would never rule out the possibility of Bob adding an option for batch fire for the SFI-6 later on. :)
 
I'm perfectly happy with SFI, I was just curious about the batch fire...

The MAF question sounds good for me, because I'm new to this and it seems that the MAF is easier to start tuning with than speed density stuff. I read all the time about guys burning a million chips, and I'd like to be able to do it too, but in the beginning I'd like to have an easier time with it until I understand the physics and mechanics of what exactly is going on. Looking at the "what's up display" and all the tables and values tells me that I can use EBL as a learning tool for me as well as a good ECM for my firebird.
 
KrisW said:
I'm perfectly happy with SFI, I was just curious about the batch fire...

The MAF question sounds good for me, because I'm new to this and it seems that the MAF is easier to start tuning with than speed density stuff. I read all the time about guys burning a million chips, and I'd like to be able to do it too, but in the beginning I'd like to have an easier time with it until I understand the physics and mechanics of what exactly is going on. Looking at the "what's up display" and all the tables and values tells me that I can use EBL as a learning tool for me as well as a good ECM for my firebird....
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely Kris. People are always finding new and better ways to run their ECM's w/proms. The idea is to keep BLM as close to 128 as possible, which basically means keeping O2 correction as close to 0% correction as possible. In the old days people used to up their fuel pressure to compensate for the increased air because they didn't have the necessary software, but then they soon grasped what it meant to have injector pulse width control. I was exploring running a boost code with the $8D mask by rescaling the MAP settings, but I soon realized that not only is it very time consuming, I just couldn't make the necessary changes on the street or by the track whenever a change was made, and I made them a lot. I would find myself burning prom after prom, and I was getting so very tired of it. It is definitely a good idea though to understand what is involved with burning your own chips, and the EBL will put you way ahead of that game.... :)
 
I was just thinking out loud over at thirdgen.org, and I realized something. I absolutely will not be able to use my engine harness, will I?

Since I have a maf 2.8 right now, I will need to hybrid-in a harness from something else. I'll need either an 86-87 GN harness, a Turbo Trans Am harness, or an 88-94 3800 car harness?

The run of the mill GM 3800 harness will be the easiest to get, and I am considering buying a whole car for the odds and ends and extra parts.

Is there anything else special I will need to run this ECM in my 88 Firebird?
 
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