Dump the gear and go timing chain?

[Alky V6]

Ya V6 guys running belts dont have a clue.. And i still have the same chain in my street car sense 2006

Running a street cam with street springs, I'm sure. 'Cause we know you won't run a chain in your racing engine now, will ya?
Answer the questions I posed a little earlier, and then maybe I will be able to say, "Yeah, maybe they do have a clue."

 

[geno]

(You are god and know all)
For a guy that has only ran 8.7 one time with a TA block,91 MM turbo and Nitious you sure THINK you have a clueI posted a picture of the chain that was ready to fail so people could see what i found and what to look for.

 

[Alky V6]

If I was a know it all, I wouldn't be having to ask questions about the system. And if someone associated with the manufacturing of the system can't give me the answers, then I'll let someone else be the guinea pig until I feel the system is proven. I've got too much money riding on my engine to be testing an unproven V6 camshaft drive system.
Let us all know how it goes, Gene.

 

[geno]

Ive decided i will Never post in the Stage 2 Tech area again You always challenge me and i cant take your know it all attitude

 

[750H.P.V6]

One thing I've come to realize over the years is that I don't have all the answers and there are people that are far smarter than I am in many things. Based on this I rely on the judgement of those people because their experience level exceeds my own. In regard to camshaft design and valvetrain questions in relation to Buick V6's I ask Tim Cole. Tim works for Comp Cams and has done for many years he has also raced Buick V6's for at least 25 years. (If you pull out your copy of the Buick Powersource he is listed in the resource section). Tim favors gear drives and was the one that warned about belt drives in Odd fire applications.

I think timing chains work fine too but as with many other things they need to be inspected and serviced as necessary. I know Gene has run one for several seasons in his car at a H.P. level exceeding 1200 H.P. and it looked fine. Conversly I know of at least one guy that breaks timing chains with some regularity at a much lower H.P. level. The car I just bought has a chain and it will be in there for a while because it's not high on my list of things to fix as the engine is fresh. The other engine I have been building has a gear drive.

Neal

 

[Alky V6]

Ive decided i will Never post in the Stage 2 Tech area again You always challenge me and i cant take your know it all attitude

Gene, my intention is never to cause someone to stop posting. You were right though on one thing. I do tend to challenge when I think someone needs to think more carefully on their point. I just want people to use their brain more on things. Just because you see these fancy, big hp V8 pictures with belt drives doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing for a V6.
Think about this for a moment. They've come out with a NEW belt. Why? What was wrong with the old belt? I'd be asking some serious questions about that if I was seriously contemplating using the system on my engine. But, that's just how I am.
I remember trying out a new design lifter that didn't work out so well. Can't afford to jump into that arena again.

Gene, another thing. I do this because I'm looking out for your best interest. If I didn't care, I wouldn't bother challenging. I posted some very serious questions. You don't have to answer them. Doesn't bother me. But what you should be doing is taking those questions and asking the people you need to ask, if you're serious about using that system.

 

[geno]

You konw after some real serious thought i have to say you are right about this and i have to eat a little crow here. I guess im stuburn and have had good luck with chains over the years and have never lost one That being said im going to be looking for a new gear drive and see what it takes to set it up on my motor. I know one thing if i run one it will sure be alot less work than a belt drive.I wouldnt have to rework the mounting on the front of my motor for my oil pump,alternater,water pump and all my hard work i put into making hard lines for the water pump Let alone setting up the distributor drive... It also looks like if the distributor was facing forward it would come real close to my cross over pipe..That chain i posted a picture of freaked me out and its got me scared

 

[norbs]

I would tack weld the bolts if I am going to run a gear drive , Jay carter had some issues that loctite could not even stop them from coming loose.

 

[Alky V6]

I would tack weld the bolts if I am going to run a gear drive , Jay carter had some issues that loctite could not even stop them from coming loose.

Bolts loosening has never been an issue for me. Although, I might be fitting the mounting plate to the front of the block more carefully. What I mean by that is, I work the mounting holes in the plate so that even if the bolts were to loosen, the plate would stay properly located due to the close fit of the bolts to the holes. The set up gear clearances would still be maintained even with loose bolts.
What would work even better would be if one were to set up the mounting plate with close fitting shouldered bolts. Mine is perfect as it sits so I won't be bothering with shouldered bolts. But, if I was starting from scratch on setting up the mouting plate, I would definitely be setting it up using tight fitting (slip fitting) shouldered hardware.
BTW, setting up the mounting plate that way requires a tremendous amount of patience. It is not that easy to accomplish.

 

[Alky V6]

My feeling on setting up the mounting plate with tight fitting (slip fit) retainers is, if the retainers help to locate the plate besides just having the tightness of the bolt alone being responsible to accomplish that, there will be far less of a chance of the plate working the bolts and loosening them. One could even add a couple of dowel pins to do that job once you have the gear clearances worked out. Setting up the dowels would be easier than the trial and error of doing it with the mounting bolts holes.

For anyone interested in doing what I did, I concentrated on working the lower two mounting bolt holes for the tight fit. The top two holes were left alone. A total of at least three of the holes will need to be tight fitting. I had one of the upper holes, which I did not have to work, and both lower holes, which I did have to work.

 

[geno]

I was thinking dowel pins to take the shear load off the bolts but still make the clearance hole tight on the bolts like you were saying. They make dowels that are for blind holes and have threads in end to remove them.Press fit the dowels in the block and slip fit into the plate.

 

[Alky V6]

I was thinking dowel pins to take the shear load off the bolts but still make the clearance hole tight on the bolts like you were saying. They make dowels that are for blind holes and have threads in end to remove them.Press fit the dowels in the block and slip fit into the plate.

Exactly! Shear force! Thank you. You've got the idea.

 

[kidglok]

can a knock sensor be used with a gear drive?

 

[Alky V6]

can a knock sensor be used with a gear drive?

At my shop I have a stethoscope I use for diagnosing noises. It's very sensitive.
With the engine running, I can position the stethoscope on the timing cover and I cannot tell that I'm running a geardrive. I have heard that some have also used a geardrive and had it noisy, and others silent. I believe that has to do with the care you take in setting up the gear clearances. Too much clearance will guarantee noise.
I get more noise when I stethoscope the valve covers than when I do the timing cover.