Cracked "New" Champion heads

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

WEll thats great news,,I may have to break my word ,and give them a shot...

TurboSam ,how is that car running and did you go with Aluminum heads..
Thanks

 

[John Wilde]

Dee is Nuts That car should rock.
I am pulling for Cal to put some cars on the trailer though!
Watch out for the guys from Cali, we are bringing some heat this year!

Good luck Cal!!!!

 

[John Wilde]

Dee is Nuts That car should rock.
I am pulling for Cal to put some cars on the trailer though!
Watch out for the guys from Cali, we are bringing some heat this year!

Good luck Cal!!!!

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by John Wilde
Dee is Nuts That car should rock.
I am pulling for Cal to put some cars on the trailer though!
Watch out for the guys from Cali, we are bringing some heat this year!

Good luck Cal!!!!

Yeah I'll be sure to be on the lookout for Cali cars like Rick Head's twin turbo 427ci SBC 3rd gen Camaro that will be in the DR class........ I really hope Lawrence Conley from Texas is there with his Tweaked II twin turbo BBC Camaro....... I want to see that beast make some passes

 

[turbosam6]

Yeah, I got the GN1's. I think they are leaking oil past the valves already. I get smoke at idle and I'm pretty sure the rings have sealed. It comes and goes. Otherwise, they are OK. I'm not totally impressed by the machine work. On my motor, both heads have a gap between the head and block in what would be the upper right corner, like they weren't decked right. I think I got it sealed up, not sure. I was told this is normal. Okey dokey, but kinda seems crappy to me. Plus i had to buy a $460 set of roller rockers for them.

All will be well when this things runnin' 10's.

 

[HighPSI]

Turbosam6: What were you leaking coolant or oil out of the area that wasn't decked correctly? Also, why did you HAVE to buy rockers? Once, I have more information, I will be more than happy to speak with Champion about this, if you haven't already. Also, I am curious, are you running gapless rings?

Brick & John: I doubt Dees is in trouble. That would be a conflict of interest for me Mike Dees and Scott Hodges are both of customers of mine running DR Mustangs. Mike's car is coming around. If he 60's anywhere in the 1.4 range, no one will be able to catch his 172+mph out the back.

 

[Quick Turbo V6]

I just sent my heads down to Champion to have them fixed. Both heads were cracked in 2 places, going from the spark plug hole towards the intake valve. These heads were the second design and bought back in March of 2001. They only had about 300 miles and 30 to 40 passes on them


Scott

 

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

Originally posted by Quick Turbo V6
I just sent my heads down to Champion to have them fixed. Both heads were cracked in 2 places, going from the spark plug hole towards the intake valve. These heads were the second design and bought back in March of 2001. They only had about 300 miles and 30 to 40 passes on them


Scott

When do you expect them back ,,seems turn around time is like less then ,,,,,,well we will see..........

 

[turbosam6]

Cal, I'm not sure I'm leaking anything out of there. If not, its only because I sealed it up myself. It would have most likely leaked oil, since I could see daylight through it, looking through the lifter valley area.

I had to buy rockers because they take specific rockers. My only other option was to use stockers. Tom at champion told me not to use stockers, he said he was going to stop telling people they can use them, since they break too easy and don't line up the pushrod very well.

I had to re shim all my new GN1 rockers, even though they were for these heads, my pushrods were hitting on some of them. I though the whole purpose of these specific rockers was repositioning to allow more pushrod clearance? Mine hit all over. I shimmed them as best I could, but some are veeerrry close. Not impressed.

My logo is on the side, so even though theres a date on my heads from this month, I got the older castings. Hopefully I won't have problems, but if I do I will be requesting new heads. It really pisses me off my heads leak oil into the combustion chamber. Jesus Christ, its not rocket science. The damn things don't seal, fix it! Guys like Anderson and Geno have fixed theirs, so why can't Champion? I'm glad to hear they are trying to get better, but thats probably because theirs going to be a new player in town, and they will finally have some competition. Having a monopoly on the TR aluminum head market isn't good motivation to improve things. What are you gonna do? Buy M&A's?

 

[turbosam6]

Oh, and I'm not sure what rings I have. I don't think they are gapless though. Out of curiosity, what does that effect?

 

[Two Lane]

Originally posted by turbosam6
Cal, I'm not sure I'm leaking anything out of there. If not, its only because I sealed it up myself. It would have most likely leaked oil, since I could see daylight through it, looking through the lifter valley area.

I had to re shim all my new GN1 rockers, even though they were for these heads, my pushrods were hitting on some of them.

I though the whole purpose of these specific rockers was repositioning to allow more pushrod clearance? Mine hit all over. I shimmed them as best I could, but some are veeerrry close.

Not impressed.

My logo is on the side, so even though theres a date on my heads from this month, I got the older castings.

Hopefully I won't have problems, but if I do I will be requesting new heads. It really pisses me off my heads leak oil into the combustion chamber.

Jesus Christ, its not rocket science. The damn things don't seal, fix it! Guys like Anderson and Geno have fixed theirs, so why can't Champion?

Having a monopoly on the TR aluminum head market isn't good motivation to improve things. What are you gonna do? Buy M&A's?

Sam,

Sorry to hear of the hassles & frustrating disappointments you're having.

Thanks for the VERY informative details of your dilemma!

Helps people make decisions aware of what may be ahead...

 

[Quick Turbo V6]

Originally posted by AsphaltAnihil8r
When do you expect them back ,,seems turn around time is like less then ,,,,,,well we will see..........

They got the heads on Monday(9-22-03). I have not heard from them yet. I heard alot of bad things about turn around time. It should be snowing in another month and a half. So I don't think my car will be running again this year

Scott

 

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

Originally posted by Quick Turbo V6
They got the heads on Monday(9-22-03). I have not heard from them yet. I heard alot of bad things about turn around time. It should be snowing in another month and a half. So I don't think my car will be running again this year

Scott

If they were my heads I would be on there a$$ now that I know (and the rest of the free world know) that they can have a turn around time within days,,,read the last 15 entries here and start calling to see where they are

Bustin Balls

 

[HighPSI]

Turbosam6,
I will talk with Champion about this tomorrow. I am still trying to imagine the leak you are talking about. Doesn't sound normal to me, either. Unless you are talking about the corner where the block, head, and intake all meet each other. Also, how did your stock rockers fit compared to the rollers? The reason I asked about the rings, was because I have seen a couple of cars with gapless rings smoke at idle from time to time.

As for their motivation, it seems to me they are more concerned about what the consumer thinks than they are about the competition (don't get me started about THEIR time schedule).

 

[Two Lane]

Originally posted by HighPSI


it seems to me they are more concerned about what the consumer thinks than they are about the competition


(don't get me started about THEIR time schedule).

( The competition actually HAS a time schedule???????? )

 

[turbosam6]

I'll check on the gapless rings. Its weird. My experience (albeit limited), is that usually when the valve guides leak, its worse at startup, then clears out a little. Mine is fine on cold start, and does OK until it warms up a little. Then it smokes off and on. I'm going to fab up some kind of pan evac system, even if its just the stock pcv with a catch can to prevent oil ingestion.

this is going to sound weird, but yesterday I got it out, and let it warm up in the driveway. While it was idling, I was walking over to the mailbox, I heard a little pop, not like a backfire, but just a little pop noise. Then it started smoking. WTF? It just comes and goes after that.

Cal, the gap I'm speaking of is in the area where the head, intake, and block meet, but not just the corner where you would normally just apply some rtv, but at least an inch back down the head. Basically if you look at the back of the block, where the head sits on it, the last 1-1.5 inches to the right has a .002 gap, you can actually stick a feeler gauge through it. I jammed some "Right Stuff" in there. You can see its the head. I guess its OK, as long as it doesn't leak. But it would have if I hadn't sealed it up. This is right in the area where the oil drainback is.

I didn't try stock rockers on there. If Champion says not to, why would I? I've seen many sets break on GN1's, and people end up going roller rockers after that anyway. I probably should have just kept the HS rockers I had, I don't think they were any closer than these GN1 rockers. I was under the impression the GN1 rockers should provide the most pushrod clearance.

I'm not interested in turning this into a "Bash Champion" thread. I'm just addressing issues that I feel might help me. At this point, I think were lucky to have any parts available to us. I'm not saying this is an excuse for poor quality, but like I said, whats your options? Its this or ported irons.

 

[Otto J]

Not bashing here either, But my car had smoked when letting it idle sometimes very bad at times, but never really smoked upon startup, and was way worse when warm. Pulled the heads and the factory guides where shot. THe car had started doing this about 1000 miles after new heads and motor, But i figured it couldnt be the heads, so i had the turbo rebuilt, replacede pcv, same problem, Replaced turbo same problem, pulled heads replaced guides and now no more smike at all.
But that was just my expierience.
Otto

 

[Two Lane]

Otto,

So you've needed to replace the guides every 1000 miles so far?

 

[turbosam6]

No, you don't replace the guides every 1000 miles, you just do it once right, the way Champion should have done it.

I checked, I do not have gapless rings. I'm sure its just the stupid valve guides, I should have known better. I should have kept my irons. What really pisses me off is, I just paid to have this motor built, long block, and they were supposed to check this out. Guess not. I talked to the builder, he said he checked one to see if it was OK. So now if I want it fixed, I gotta disassemble the motor, send them back, and re install them. New cometic head gaskets, $$$, new intake gaskets, $$$, my time, $$$$$$. I'll probably even have to pay shipping. I know race cars are different, but I shouldn't have to immediately take this thing apart. I don't expect anything to last 100,000 miles, but a couple days would be nice! Also if I send them back to Champion, I cant trust they will be repaired properly, if they can't even do it right once. So what do I do? Send them to someone who can fix them? More of my money, down the drain. Hmmm...Wonder why the buick following is diminishing every year? Meanwhile, all my buddies with chevys are buying parts, and guess what? They fit, work as advertised, and cost half as much! I always thought they were a little crude, with their 4 barrels and no heat, A/C, etc. But it looks like I'm the bonehead. Maybe they are right.

 

[STP]

You can reuse the Cometics if the coating isn't damaged.