All‐new Ultra High‐Flow CEA turbine wheels announced

[jasjamz]

Just had a guy order a 6262 like two weeks ago. I ported the wastegate hole and put it on last week. He is happy with it so far and to spend $550 plus the downpipe puck install is not worth the time and effort if you haven't seen proven gains on a combo like yours or maxed out the current unit. I'm happy with the support and products from PTE!

 

[ungrave]

Gotta give it up for PTE for always pushing the envelope!

So how would spool compare for the 5857 vs a new 5862 (w/ CEA turbine) on a bolt-on only stock long block turbo buick.
Is a 62mm turbine wheel too big for stock cam and heads? .63 A/R only.

PTE's websites says:

5857 605HP
5862 640HP

 

[sixgun86gn]

I currently have a te-63 on my car as of now. What would the comparable unit with these wheels be these days? I like the 63 it works good with my setup.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Great to see, this shuts the door on the Borg Warner turbo being way ahead of the game. Scary to think you gain around 30-45hp on the same sized exhaust wheel and it spools a bit faster, awesome.

Bison, the V Band housing is starting to catch on in the Import World, they're seeing an increase in spool up and power vs the traditional T3 .63 and T3 .85 housings. I guess the question is, how do we convert our header flange to V Band and keep the DP location the same. I'd be up for this when engine 3 is done next Spring. I'm eyeballing the new CEA 62/62 as it appears to be a high 9 turbo with the right combo.

Hey Patrick, can you give us a rough estimate of how the wheels compare to the old, maybe like this

58mm CEA Comp vs 58mm Cast Comp = CEA Spools Tad Faster and makes the power of 3mm larger Cast Comp Wheel
62mm CEA EX vs 62mm HP EX = CEA Spools Tad Faster and makes the power of 4mm larger Cast Ex Wheel

Those of us with the TA49, TE44 etc it looks like we are 1 Evolution behind in the Comp Wheel and now 2 Evolutions in the Exhaust. Ouch

 

[bison]

Great to see, this shuts the door on the Borg Warner turbo being way ahead of the game. Scary to think you gain around 30-45hp on the same sized exhaust wheel and it spools a bit faster, awesome.

Bison, the V Band housing is starting to catch on in the Import World, they're seeing an increase in spool up and power vs the traditional T3 .63 and T3 .85 housings. I guess the question is, how do we convert our header flange to V Band and keep the DP location the same. I'd be up for this when engine 3 is done next Spring. I'm eyeballing the new CEA 62/62 as it appears to be a high 9 turbo with the right combo.

Hey Patrick, can you give us a rough estimate of how the wheels compare to the old, maybe like this

58mm CEA Comp vs 58mm Cast Comp = CEA Spools Tad Faster and makes the power of 3mm larger Cast Comp Wheel
62mm CEA EX vs 62mm HP EX = CEA Spools Tad Faster and makes the power of 4mm larger Cast Ex Wheel

Those of us with the TA49, TE44 etc it looks like we are 1 Evolution behind in the Comp Wheel and now 2 Evolutions in the Exhaust. Ouch

A 40hp gain switching ex wheels is wishful thinking for most. I've only seen that when going from an old 76 trim to a gtq when over 600whp. converting a set of headers to work with a v band housing and the cost of a fabbed dp and external gate would need to be considered to get the most potential flow out of it. 99% of what I see here can't even come close on a 3 bolt. Looks like about $1500 including an external gate and paying a fab shop to make the dp and get the gate where it needs to be. $300-400 for the gate and a little over $1k for the fabbing and material with 316 stainless. If you already had an external you would save the $300-400 and probably recover $300-400 selling you stainless dp you are pulling off. Almost worth doing it and ordering a journal turbo if you have a quality converter. The spoolup difference is little between journal and ball bearing unless the converter is junk. Then again there is probably about nothing there the way most want to run them. A turbo that will support 650hp and they run 11.40

 

[JT'sV6]

Converting to a vband setup could be done for $500 if you do the work yourself. I think its more for simplicity of taking it off and on. I'd just cut the stock 3 bolt flange off and weld on a vband ring, convert to external wg dumping it to the atmosphere, and buy a rjc block off plate to cover the internal gate.

I bought my 6262 new in july, is there any chance my turbo has the new cea wheel on it? (wishful thinking) Turbo's are like cell phones, there are always newer technology coming out, haha.

 

[jasjamz]

Converting to a vband setup could be done for $500 if you do the work yourself. I think its more for simplicity of taking it off and on. I'd just cut the stock 3 bolt flange off and weld on a vband ring, convert to external wg dumping it to the atmosphere, and buy a rjc block off plate to cover the internal gate.

I bought my 6262 new in july, is there any chance my turbo has the new cea wheel on it? (wishful thinking) Turbo's are like cell phones, there are always newer technology coming out, haha.

The pictured housing will require a v band downpipe too. The RJC block off will not be needed. Like said before, downpipe, wastegate, turbo housing, and fab work for the manifold flange will be costly. Also the cost of good clamps and a boost control unit will come into play. Now do "I" feel someone with a 62mm turbo should spend that much on a conversion....No way! I watch these cars fly with the 3 bolt buick housings on the street/race cars.

As I look at it more, if the a/r housing is the same size, will there be much of a difference in the Buick 3 bolt vs, the v-band if both cars are using an external gate off the header or crossover? If a person is at the point where they're considering the v-band they are at the point they are going to a 4 bolt housing anyway. At least they have an adaptor flange to convert or headers with the flanges for that already. Now, for a total custom turbo build I can see the v-band housing being a fab guy favorite.
Just my .02

 

[trick86]

Hey Patrick

Is there plans to be able to do a small run of these CEA turbine and compressor wheeled turbo's with Garrett compressor housings for us guys wanting stock apperance?

Please release a new comparision chart covering the new CEA turbine/compressor turbos against TA/TE units. Which new CEA turbo would be comparable spool to a TA-49? And one-step slower spool than a TA-49?

Thanks
Byron

 

[JT'sV6]

The pictured housing will require a v band downpipe too. The RJC block off will not be needed. Like said before, downpipe, wastegate, turbo housing, and fab work for the manifold flange will be costly. Also the cost of good clamps and a boost control unit will come into play. Now do "I" feel someone with a 62mm turbo should spend that much on a conversion....No way! I watch these cars fly with the 3 bolt buick housings on the street/race cars.

As I look at it more, if the a/r housing is the same size, will there be much of a difference in the Buick 3 bolt vs, the v-band if both cars are using an external gate off the header or crossover? If a person is at the point where they're considering the v-band they are at the point they are going to a 4 bolt housing anyway. At least they have an adaptor flange to convert or headers with the flanges for that already. Now, for a total custom turbo build I can see the v-band housing being a fab guy favorite.
Just my .02

Thats true, Forgot about the downpipe. And I agree the 3 bolt is eough to get the job done.

 

[tonysmach]

I have brand new 6765 here i got a few weeks back, I am a but pissed that i wasnt told about the future being so close.
Patrick, please look into this. I would rather update before it is installed.
Thanks

I just purchased the same DBB 6765 about 4 weeks ago through Full Throttle. Has not been installed yet. This is not right that they would sell these old models at full price. Patrick please let me know if Precision is going to do something about this.

 

[DoubleD]

very interesting improvements! is it an upgrade in metallurgy that allows the blade to be thinned out significantly near the root? or just further analysis showed that it was overly conservative to have so much support on that side of the blade?

can definitely see where more flow can come from with those!

 

[KevinB]

So, would a 6766 be better than a 6768?

 

[RUQWKNF]

KevinB - I will send you a PM.

Pronto, GNVYUS 1, Ed Valvo - Revising the turbo chart will take some time, but it is on the to do list.

Ungrave - That is a very tough question to answer as I do not know of anyone who has purchased a Buick specific 3-bolt 5862 turbo. In my opinion, the 62mm CEA turbine wheel is not too big for a stock motor combination. Now given, 90% of the Buick owners do not realize the full potential of the turbo that they currently have. Nor do they maximize the combination before making a turbo change. This is why you occasionally see someone with a TA-49 or a TE-44 that have gone really fast. This is because they have maximized their combo around the power that the turbo is capable of supporting. This is not something that can be done overnight. Every aspect of their combination has been refined, tweaked and tuned to reach those unheard of ET's and speeds with the smaller turbos. I would not hesitate to run a 6262 turbo on a stock motor with bolt ons. Here is an example. Let's say someone is starting with a bone stock motor with valve springs and a timing chain that has been well maintained and passes all the checks and tests. And their goals are mid to low 11's in a full weight car. The 6262 would work great. But just bolting the turbo on and going for broke is not going to get you there. It takes supporting mods and a proper tune to get there. Supporting mods would be, a good aftermarket intercooler, fuel system, chip, 3" downpipe and exhaust. Then working on the suspension, a properly spec'd torque converter and sticky tires. And lastly, as a bare minimum a Scanmaster so you can at least have some idea of your state of tune while making a pass. A real bonus with this combo, would be to also incorporate a Power Logger into the mix. It will really help you fine tune the combo even further by being able to datalog the entire run. Now, you take this same combo and rebuild the motor, throw in ported heads or aluminum heads and a cam, retune it and now you have a mid to high 10 second capable combination. Combination and proper tuning are the keys to success with any Turbo Buick.

sixgun86 - A current turbo that would displace an older TE63, would be our 6266.

JT'sV6 - I will send you a PM. But to let others know, we have implemented an upgrade program as John Wilde mentioned earlier. We have been using the CEA turbine wheels in our 6262 units for some time now. The best way to find out if your 6262 has the CEA technology, would be to compare your turbine wheel to the one pictured above.

trick86 - Our CEA compressor wheel technology has been available with the Garrett stock appearing TA compressor cover, since we released them last year. Here is the thread started about the TA stock appearing CEA compressor wheel turbos. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/tu...os-latest-billet-ta-series-turbochargers.html As of now, the units that are available with both CEA billet compressor wheel and the CEA turbine wheel technology, would be our TA6262 and the TA6266.

tonysmach - I will send you a PM.

DoubleD - That is a very good question. These new CEA designed turbine wheels utilize the same metallurgy that all of our older turbine wheels have used. The main difference with the new CEA turbine wheels, is that they utilize the latest advancements in aerodynamics and are the first turbine wheels that have been designed in house. Yes, the previous designs were way too conservative.

As previously mentioned in our press release, back to back dyno testing has been done on various applications against our older 6262, 6265 and the 6765 turbos equipped with the CEA billet compressor wheels. This testing has been on going for the past 6 months with very favorable results. The new 62 CEA turbine wheel showed gains of 20 hp and the 66 CEA turbine wheel showed gains of up to 45 hp.

To my knowledge, I do not know of anyone who has done back to back testing on the new CEA 6766 vs CEA compressor wheel 6768 Buick specific 3-bolt turbos. But I'm sure we will hear results of that test soon.

Thank you all for your patience and I will post more updates as we get them. I will also be working on an updated turbo chart and will start a new thread once it is finished.
Let us know if you have any questions.

Patrick

 

[JT'sV6]

Interesting. I'm pretty sure the bolt on my turbine wheel does not have the lip and looks more like the cea style wheel. I will take it off and maybe take some pics to confirm it, maybe post some on here and have you confirm as well.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

Patrick, at what boost levels were these HP gains realized?

 

[slo-joe55]

Hebron, IN – September 21, 2011 – PRECISION TURBO AND ENGINE has announced the addition of all new, ultra high‐flow CEA (Competition Engineered Aerodynamics) turbine wheels to their current product line.

Specifically engineered to produce massive power gains over older turbine wheel designs, usage of Precision’s new CEA wheels typically results in an average increase of 30‐45 horsepower over comparably sized standard designs. Furthermore, spool‐up time is improved when using PTE’s CEA turbine wheels to further reduce turbo lag.
Precision’s current 62mm turbine wheels will be replaced by the new 62mm CEA version whereas the current 65mm turbine wheels will be replaced with a newly‐developed 66mm CEA wheel. Utilizing an enhanced design, the new ultra high‐flow turbine wheels will come standard on all of Precision’s 62mm and 66mm turbine wheel equipped turbochargers that also feature our exclusive CEA compressor wheels. They are available in both air cooled ball‐bearing and journal bearing versions. These include the 5862, 6262, 6266 and 6766 units.

Additionally, all current turbine housing offerings will be available with the new CEA turbine wheels. Similar in concept to our CEA compressor wheels, these new CEA turbine wheels offer unparalleled performance and the best “bang for your buck”. The cutting‐edge technology found in Precision Turbo and Engine’s CEA turbine wheels and CEA compressor wheels is unlike anything else on the market today. PTE is committed to keeping racers well ahead of the competition by constantly innovating and engineering the most powerful turbos possible.

Contact:
Precision Turbo and Engine, Inc
616A S Main Street, PO Box 425
Hebron, IN 46341
P: (219) 996‐7832
F: (219) 996‐7749
Precision Turbo and Engine: Turbochargers, Air/Fuel Delivery, Boost Control, Racing

This is the official press release about our proprietary and exclusive 66mm CEA turbine wheel that was just released yesterday. What this means for the Buick world, is more power at the same boost level, when compared to the CEA 6765 that it displaces and quicker spool up. With the decreases in back pressure with this new turbine wheel and wanting to use an internally wastegated downpipe, it may be necessary to install the larger RJC internal downpipe puck assembly.

As you would need to port the wastegate hole in the turbine housing more than you normally could with a standard 1.5" puck typically used on the internally wastegated 3" and 3.5" downpipes. Or you could eliminate any doubt about boost control and run an external wastegate. The Precision .63 and .85 A/R 3-bolt turbine housings are available for these new units, as well as our T4 Tangentials in .58, .68, .81 and .96 A/R.
Stay tuned for more pictures and information too come about these new CEA turbine wheel equipped turbos.

Patrick

Hey Patrick

What convertors work best with these new turbos?

 

[Blazer406]

Sometimes procrastination does payoff.....

I'd like to see a HP comparison, spoolup comparison, and price comparison for the new 6766 vs the old 6768 and the 6765.

 

[GerrywithaG]

They're heeeeeerrrrrreeee.. thanks patrick

 

[Turbo-Fun]

Sorry but I have to throw myself in the ring with the very disappointed bunch that recently purchased the now old technology turbos just so you could clear inventory to the unsuspecting. I purchased three weeks ago, installed it one week ago and ran it for the first time yesterday. I too talked to patrick when I was buying and of course nothing was said to me that if I wait a week or two I will be able to have the next generation turbo. It really would have been nice instead of just unloading old technology inventory on what turns out to be more than just few of us.....Bad business practice. I know many of you will make me the bad guy for voicing a strong opinion but that is just how I feel after spending $$$$$$ three/four weeks ago and now it's old technology.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Sorry but I have to throw myself in the ring with the very disappointed bunch that recently purchased the now old technology turbos just so you could clear inventory to the unsuspecting. I purchased three weeks ago, installed it one week ago and ran it for the first time yesterday. I too talked to patrick when I was buying and of course nothing was said to me that if I wait a week or two I will be able to have the next generation turbo. It really would have been nice instead of just unloading old technology inventory on what turns out to be more than just few of us.....Bad business practice. I know many of you will make me the bad guy for voicing a strong opinion but that is just how I feel after spending $$$$$$ three/four weeks ago and now it's old technology.

The word is we can get the upgrade for $550 (probably plus shipping) and then the cost of having to re-tune the car to the increased horsepower, all the while not driving and enjoying our cars.

Total coming to around, oh, say $750....minimum.

I would be interested in knowing if the new turbo's cost that much more than the ones we purchased, or is it that we are paying "extra" in addition to having recently bought "old technology" if we choose to upgrade.