Alky Control Or E85?

[jdpolzin]

Yes there is E85 cars running fast all over the world.

To take it further lets look at the #1 cause of issues with them.

Water and contaminated fuel. Razor touched on it

Filtration has had to be tripled and fuel components are still getting messed up from it.

Water intrusion/absorbtion is a uphill battle and is inherent to ethanol. A drum of Meth vs thousands of gallons of E85. The amount of E85 in holding just makes it that much harder to get a grip on teh water and algae in the tanks

Im just saying.

Im trying to figure out what you are trying to say in this post? Are you saying that only E85 can be contaminated or are you agreeing with my post that any fuel can be contaminated?

Regardless of which alcohol based fuel you are using, it will have water absorbtion issues. The amount of water based on the tank carrying it doesnt matter whether it's a fuel stations tank or a drum.

Any fuel you run, alcohol based or not is going to have watering issues, even race gas.

 

[scot w.]

Subscribed! :biggrin:

 

[turbo nasty]

Come on dude......yes both can be contaminated.

Im not gonna get in a hair splitting pissing contest.

E85 in thousands of gallon in the holding tanks vs. a 55 gallon drum.

The 55 gallon drum is not refilled once its halfway and continually used over and over. Of course if its not stored correctly then yes it can get water in it

E85 is the same tank over and over. Which one is gonna be harder to control on water contamination with. Or should I say, over time which is gonna have a higher chance of getting water in the fuel.

I know the condition of the Meth im getting. Its a smaller more controlled quantity.

If you are in the know and have fuel tank tests, water finding dip tests, fuel sample results, etc etc from your E85 supplier then rock on.

Having been through federal govt fuel tank install, maint/custodian training I know a little about whats inherent to fuel storage

 

[jdpolzin]

Come on dude......yes both can be contaminated.

Im not gonna get in a hair splitting pissing contest.

E85 in thousands of gallon in the holding tanks vs. a 55 gallon drum.

The 55 gallon drum is not refilled once its halfway and continually used over and over. Of course if its not stored correctly then yes it can get water in it

E85 is the same tank over and over. Which one is gonna be harder to control on water contamination with. Or should zI say which over time is gonna have a higher chance of getting water in the fuel.

I know the condition of the Meth im getting. Its a smaller more controlled quantity.

If you are in the know and have fuel tank tests, water finding dip tests, fuel sample results from your E85 supplier then rock on.

Having been through federal govt fuel tank install, maint/custodian training I know a little about whats inherent to fuel storage

No hair splitting pissing contest intended here! I was trying to figure out what you were saying by your last post.

Your posts somewhat agree to what I'm saying and somewhat dont.

Our cars rely on two things to run, Air and Fuel. My point is, your not going to run your car with an alky kit and no gas. The gas you put into your tank has the same chance of having condensation (water) in it as the E85 you would be replacing it with. Maybe slightly higher becuase of E85's alcohol content. Alky or not, same fail factors here with E85 as you'd have with 93 . 93 or E85 is the primary fuel source.

An alky injection is going to be sprayed on top of the 93 to make the A/F mixture cooler. Same thing E85 is doing.

 

[blackmonte]

I dont think I even have to post what I would do if I were you! You know what my responce would beE85!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 , As long as you can find the stuff!!!

 

[tom j]

Here's one reason why... have a look at the yellow arrow.

This car has a stock motor w/ 165k, TA49 turbo, stock intercooler. 80's with a single walbro in-tank, TT chip and SMC single nozzle with straight meth that consumes very little volume. It's bomb proof. The only way to make it detonate is to get too greedy with the timing. Then it starts to show 1-2 degrees KR on the 2-3 upshift.

So far in humid 90F weather it trapped 111mph at the track with the stock converter UNlocked, slipping 15% and plain street radials. Best it ever did unlocked with 100 unleaded + meth was 107mph.

LOOKS TO BE A TAD RICH 7.3afr :biggrin:

 

[turbo nasty]

Yet another water issue with E85.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e8...one-else-having-problems-water-there-e85.html

Im just saying

 

[Steve]

Yet another water issue with E85.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e8...one-else-having-problems-water-there-e85.html

Im just saying

That really doesn't mean anything. I am sure you can find posts about failed alky pumps, failed Walbros, failed XP pumps, bad gas and any number of other items but that doesn't mean you should not use any of those things. I am sure that you can find a post right now from this board about an alky pump dying or a alky system malfunction but posting it up with the phrase "I'm just saying" does not change the fact that alky injection works any more than the post about water in E85 doesn't change the fact that E85 works. I recently got a tank of pump gas in my company car that had water in it and it got to the point that the car had to go in for service to the have the tank drained but I am not going to quite using pump gas!

I think if you live in the midwest where E85 is readily available it is a good alternative but maybe if you live in other areas where is hard to come by maybe the pump gas/alky is a better choice. Both set ups work and can easily get a car into the high 10's but I just think it is ridiculos to bash someone else's preference just because you prefer a different method. People bashed alky when it first came on the scene but it has proven itself to be effective and dependable.

I do not run E85 but I am impressed with what some people are able to get out of it. A local guy recently got 1007 RWHP from a 370 LS based motor with a turbo and E85!

 

[turbo nasty]

OP wanted pros and cons of both now he has a E85 soap opera to......LOL

 

[DR BOOST]

ive decided to stay with 93 and alky for the following reasons.

1. i dont like the short driving range with e-85

2. i dont see much of an advantage in high boost if all the timing is taken out.
a boost guage does not guage power.

3. there is no need for 30 lbs of boost on the street and e-85 doesnt compare to race gas at the track.

4. there are too many material incompatability issues with ethanol in the fuel system that most people only half address.

5. 93 and an alky kit are more cost effective both short and long term.

6. most people who make big power with e-85 buy it by the barrel and are not budget limited.

7. im yet to see an impressive e-85 street trim turbo buick. i know of a few dozen hard running alky users

8. e-85 doesnt keep the intake clean like meth injection.

let the debate continue.

 

[jasjamz]

It's alky and pump gas for me. Did two alky kits so far and the people love it. Third on the way. Tried a 50/50 93/e85 mix and it was cool. Maxed out my injectors at 22psi. Idled better and smelled better too. The balancing act, injectors upgrade, and lack of tuning support was the problem. Then my engine builder send a "hint" to stick with the pump gas and meth so I stopped playing with it.

 

[blackmonte]

im yet to see an impressive e-85 street trim turbo buick. Hey thanks Doc

 

[jasjamz]

John, he's a wisea$$ ain't he.

 

[blackmonte]

lol:biggrin:

 

[49-blues]

It seems when you factor in the 30% more fuel and lower price per gallon of E-85 that it runs pretty close to what a gallon of 93 costs plus you re getting about 17-19 more octane where I don't have to spend extra dollars for an alky kit and equipement components- seems to be a easier way to go and maybe more reliable. I plan on carrying an extra chip for 93 just in case on long trips but the car doesn't make too many of them and I can always keep a few cans of E-85 in my garage if I run low.around here E-85 is about $2.25 a gallon and $3.00 for 93.

 

[BEATAV8]

This drama reminds me of the introduction of the RJC power plate.

Give it another year or so.... 10X more people will be using E85 on the street and at the track.

 

[jdpolzin]

ive decided to stay with 93 and alky for the following reasons.

1. i dont like the short driving range with e-85

2. i dont see much of an advantage in high boost if all the timing is taken out.
a boost guage does not guage power.

3. there is no need for 30 lbs of boost on the street and e-85 doesnt compare to race gas at the track.

4. there are too many material incompatability issues with ethanol in the fuel system that most people only half address.

5. 93 and an alky kit are more cost effective both short and long term.

6. most people who make big power with e-85 buy it by the barrel and are not budget limited.

7. im yet to see an impressive e-85 street trim turbo buick. i know of a few dozen hard running alky users

8. e-85 doesnt keep the intake clean like meth injection.

let the debate continue.

NOW WAY A MINUTE SUREJY BOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Driving range of E85, dude you never drive your car anyways???? Many of us E85 guys drive our cars across the country on E85 and have done it multiple times. How many miles do you get on a tank? I get 250 on a tank in my 249ci car on E85. Austin gets 18mpgs on it.

2. Timing takin out? HUH????? What are you considering BIG timing? I thought we were running some pretty good numbers at 23 deg. But I will admit, you've been in the game longer than I have so I'm sure you've had some pretty good timing tables, but how many motors have you blown up again??????!!!!!!!!!!

3. I agree but that really doesnt pertain to E85 or Alky and E85 is good for street or strip

4. We've run E85 consistantly for 5 years without any equipment failures caused by E85, what exactly are you having fail??

5. E85 is also cost effective, hell it's $1 cheaper than 93 and doesnt need alky sprayed ontop of it.

6. Buy E85 by the barrel, well i guess that would eliminate "turbo nasty's" argument that it'll collect water inside a barrel at the gas station but I dont see why someone wouldnt just buy it at the pump on the way to the track, it's at almost every gas station now. Well I guess it is around here anyways!:biggrin:

7. Have you ridden in any E85 cars?????? What are you cinsidering impressive? Are we going to start a grudge match on this thread? I'll run you as long as you are running 93 and alky without the other little "spray".

8. Not sure how dirty your intake gets but mine is still clean as a whistle!!!:biggrin:

 

[jdpolzin]

This drama reminds me of the introduction of the RJC power plate.

Give it another year or so.... 10X more people will be using E85 on the street and at the track.

HAHA!!!!!! Yeah we should start our own show on SPEED! It would be much better than PINKS! The drama never ends on TB.com but it's all in good fun and good information. I think it's already come to a point that 10x more people are using it. Essentially every fast turbo car around the Quad Cities that I can think of is running E85 already. One of my best friend has a mildly built Eagle Talon AWD. He dynoed 404 AWHP on E85!!! Thats impressive.

 

[jasjamz]

So, how many of you have E85 guys have beat your dyno or track numbers you made on alky and 93? Not taking a side but asking for proof. State your boost and timing, and A/F for both tunes. If you changed turbo, intercooler, or converters the combo can not be accurately compared imo.

Hell, if you can run over 20psi and keep the head gaskets in place thats an accomplishment in my book.

 

[BEATAV8]

So, how many of you have E85 guys have beat your dyno or track numbers you made on alky and 93? Not taking a side but asking for proof. State your boost and timing, and A/F for both tunes. If you changed turbo, intercooler, or converters the combo can not be accurately compared imo.

Hell, if you can run over 20psi and keep the head gaskets in place thats an accomplishment in my book.

My best on E85 with Alky is 3-4 mph better than my best on 100 Sunoco GT and Alky.

I can't provide a solid back-to-back due to weather conditions, but it is what it is. I run considerably more boost and 1 degree more timing with E85 & Alky compared to 100 no-lead & Alky.