Alcohol Injection/No intercooler!!

1

1QUICK85

Big Old Turbo Turd!!
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
What would I be losing if I went without my intercooler? I was thinking of having a custom pipe bent to connect the turbo to throttle body and then piping in a alcohol injection kit. From what I have read it seems like I would just have to turn the alcohol on sooner and it could pretty much replace the intercooler..........or am I way off base??:confused:

I just dont like the look of the v2 intercooler or the piping. I was thinking if alcohol could get it done then why not go back to hot air w/alcohol injection?

I want to hit mid 12's on street tires and a good tune. Will it be harder without that intercooler on her?

Nick
 
I doubt the alky will make up for no intercooler. Also, I can't imagine pulling the intercooler off and fabbing a pipe to make it work since you already paid for it and it's functional. Why not add alky on top of the intercooler? Of course it's going to be harder to reach your goal without an intercooler. While I'm a big fan of alcohol injection, an intercooler is always there, never runs out, and is maintenance free. Don't forget, the alky displaces some of the air. If I had a choice of one or the other it would be intercooler hands down but why not do both?
 
Ya I am just throwing ideas out to see what ya guys think. Now that you state it like that.......I guess there really is no substitute for an intercooler. Still thinking to if I want to dump $300 or more on a alky setup....SMC kit. I have a headgasket to change so hopefully be the end of that, I will have my mind made up.

Nick
 
After running the SMC kit and now the kit put out by Razor, there's no comparison. Razor's progressive kit is seamless. No bogging, no transitional knock, you don't even realize it's there. If you do decide to go alky and no intercooler, I would suggest Razor's kit since you can start injecting alky in low quantities at very low boost and it ramps up from there.

I agree with the looks of the V2 kit but I figure why give up nearly 100hp just because it doesn't look that great.
 
100hp:confused: Just from the intercooler not being there or did I mislead you that I would take the V2 intake off. I am keeping the V2 intake for sure.

Razors kit is to expensive for me. I was think a used SMC kit. I guess I have some research to do.

Nick
 
Forgot who. But somebody has already done this [removed i/c and made a custom U pipe] I think he was impressed with findings but not sure. I do remember the pictures though - looked very strange w/o up pipe and i/c.
 
Excellent Bruce......this is exactly what I am looking for. I just wish I could make sense of the data you have posted. I am affraid that I have no idea what I am looking for in the data logs. Difference in values what does that then mean? Have you lost/gained performance from doing this? Do you really have to have an intercooler to put up some good times or to out run some guy and his rustang on the street?

Interesting seeing a Intercooled guy trying this. Very cool.

TIA, Nick
 
Run Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB

Run Run time
MPH Miles Per Hour
RPM Revolutions per Minute
K/Pa Absolute intake pressure, 100 being atmosphere, 200 ~
15 PSI
TPS Throttle Position Sensor as %
CTS Coolant Temp Sensor dF
MAT Manifold Air Temp in plenum dF
Spkf Spark Final in degrees
PW Pulse Width
WB WB indicated Air Fuel Ratio
 
So, from your experience what do you have to say on the whole issue Bruce? Intercooler alone, intercooler and alky, or just alky alone! Whats you personal favorite? I think you are the only guy that has done this.

Does alky take the place of some of the boost the turbo makes?

I am getting responses that a intercooler and alky is going to be better, I guess I was just trying to be different;)

TIA, Nick
 
Originally posted by 1QUICK85
So, from your experience what do you have to say on the whole issue Bruce? Intercooler alone, intercooler and alky, or just alky alone! Whats you personal favorite? I think you are the only guy that has done this.

Does alky take the place of some of the boost the turbo makes?

I am getting responses that a intercooler and alky is going to be better, I guess I was just trying to be different;)
Click to expand...

For me the answer is no intercooler.
Running Alky just makes life sweeter for me.

I have the MAT sensor in the plenum, and my code accounts for for the MAT temperature, so if the alky is on I get to run more timing. If it's off, the temp is higher, and the code pulls some timing out. Just the best of all worlds.

If you run a huge front mount that's one thing, but anything else then that, and you have in effect made a large thermal flywheel out of the system. If the I/C weights 25#, that means you have to wait for that 25#s to cool down again, for it to be of benefit to you. I can go from a roll as many times as I want, while I might not be as fast as someone, with an I/C on the first run, as they heat soak their I/C, I'll drive right on by. And if on the Alky I won't give up anything.

Alky isn't just about cooling, it also participates in the chemical reactions in the chamber.
 
Here i'm trying to intercool my hot air and your heating up the intercooled car. I probably would have traded you:D . I've never seen that before. What i'm gathering here is... An intercooler is not quite as effective as just alky, for your car? right? Thats interesting, I'd never think of an intercooler getting heat soaked, does this happen at the track? On the street the intercooler should stay cool, correct? I'll be selling my car soon and picking up an intercooled one in the near future. I'll have to check out some of your results with your set up. Verry interesting!

I agree the v2 isn't the best looking piping, but mandarel bent piping would! imo. Havent istalled mine yet, probably wont due to sale. Take it easy guys. Tim
 
That's some excellent data, very neat to see someone trying this stuff out! That's probably the dream "hot-air" set up right there!
 
Dream hot air set up is right. The way the hotairs should have been made. Location of turbo ect........
 
Originally posted by 84turbogn
An intercooler is not quite as effective as just alky, for your car?
Click to expand...

There's two very different Intercoolers.
The stock location, and the Front Mounts.

For an intercooler to work at it's best means being located in a cool spot, with lots of air flow. And it needs to be large, unless your continually at over 120 MPH with well placed aero devices.

If someone was to give me one of the large Front Mounts tomorrow I would use it. With Alky. You'll note in the data log I was able to get the MAT below the intial value, I see no way of any intercooler being able to do that. So for the best possible scenario, I'd use both.

Since one'd likely to be giving me a F/M I can only optimise what I have, in this case seeing if the stocke intercooler is worth even using, and then figuring out the Alky.

I will content, that in the oem application the stock intercooler was in fact part of the emissions package. In all the other 3.8 RWD, applications they used smog pumps. While the SEFI was a help, I believe the charge heating, and thus better vaporization played a large part in reducing emissions.

Anyway, for me the Alky allows for an instant reply for being able to reuse boost without having to wait for the intercooler to cool back down. Which is what I need in stop and go traffic..........
 
Originally posted by bruce
There's two very different Intercoolers.
The stock location, and the Front Mounts.

For an intercooler to work at it's best means being located in a cool spot, with lots of air flow. And it needs to be large, unless your continually at over 120 MPH with well placed aero devices.

If someone was to give me one of the large Front Mounts tomorrow I would use it. With Alky. You'll note in the data log I was able to get the MAT below the intial value, I see no way of any intercooler being able to do that. So for the best possible scenario, I'd use both.

Since one'd likely to be giving me a F/M I can only optimise what I have, in this case seeing if the stocke intercooler is worth even using, and then figuring out the Alky.

I will content, that in the oem application the stock intercooler was in fact part of the emissions package. In all the other 3.8 RWD, applications they used smog pumps. While the SEFI was a help, I believe the charge heating, and thus better vaporization played a large part in reducing emissions.

Anyway, for me the Alky allows for an instant reply for being able to reuse boost without having to wait for the intercooler to cool back down. Which is what I need in stop and go traffic..........
Click to expand...

This is very interesting. I can't see your data, can you give a quick overview? Are you saying the MATs with alky are comparable or even lower than with an intercooler? Are the temps with alky more stable, as in they don't climb during a run?

I know with my dad's T-type and a Mease stock location intercooler, the temp goes higher and higher as the run goes on. The temp also starts out higher than his hotair did so I can see the intercooler being a heater during stop and go traffic.

On his GN as soon as the methanol kicks in the temp drops as low as the guage will go which is usually below ambient.
 
Well heres my 2 cents. :)I actually like the look of the intercooler piping on the tm kit. I am however fabbing up new piping to run a front mount intercooler like what turbowrenchhead has. The way I see it is if you want to delete the IC on the tm kit, you might as well run a ported hogged out stock intake with alky and i would imagine you'll get the same results, as ive seen other people get. This is what jay accomplished with the V1 and the V3 intakes. I do agree with bruce about stock intake acting as an interheater under hot driving conditions. But you got a good idea 1quick6 :)
good luck with whatever you're doing! Now that i got an intercooler, even tho its a stock 86/7 the difference is amazing! especially on the cold nights we've been having!:p
 
Just got my heads back from the shop.........Blew a headgasket:(.........so should have her running in a week or so.....when I get time and nice weather to put her all back together. Any tips on installing the headgaskets or anything......please chime in!!

I have decided to keep the intercooler.....and throw around the idea of alky.......but we will see. For now I am just going to run her the way she is and kick some mustang a$$.

You guy think with some race gas, 20# of boost i could hit the mid 12's?? Traction will be an issue. 215's street tires. ;)

The FFM would be very cool........still another great option.

Later, Nick.
 
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