Would like your opinion on a new exhaust cutout prototype.

Hold it.. I never said Yours is a turd design.. I just said nowdays its possible to package a "Turd" and sell it.. Dont take it out of context
Sorry if I took it wrong. Wow come on folks it's just a discussion... People have a right to give their opinion.
Millions of dumps have been bought over the years by people who know little as to what their HP gains would be. And millions more will be bought in the future. If given the choice many will buy this one instead.

Yes, I certainly would like to see proof. But many outside the TR world have already made the decisions without it. So either way. I believe there is a market for this piece. Make it stainless, make it pretty, have the cap made in polished stainless with your logo laser etched in it, and it will sell.

Keep the cost a lot lower than the electric cut-outs (this will be easy) and you may steal some of those customers as well. I can sell 25 of your cut-outs at the local import window tint shop tomorrow if I had them in my trunk!

Like I said before, for a guy like me, who had a true dual exhaust fabbed up from scratch, I would have put 2 of them on just for shits and giggles.
thanks for the comments.

We are getting it quoted in SS. but because it has to be precisely fitted, the manufacturing isn't as cheap as you or I would think/hope. It can't be just roughed out like the typical cutout with weld sticking out into the flow path. That said we are trying to get the best price so that we are competitive with the upper end, manual cutout s currently on the market, and yes, less expensive then the electric ones.
 
Huh .. Dude re-read what i posted.. Dont tell me i havent seen it tested or have the data to prove it.. How the F would u know what ive seen and tested.. I made a simple post... Its been done and tried in many configurations A LONG time ago !! It didnt do SQUAT .. Now if u think your so sharp .. I'll pull all the parts out and we can dyno it and put it on YOUR car to run and evaluate it.... But when it returns NILL you pay for the dyno time , track time and labor time to do it!

Settle down pilgrim! The picture you posted isn't even close to what this guy has done.

If you already have the data and test results then share them.

You obviously have saved all this info and data so you could prove him wrong, RIGHT??

I personally don't care what the results are but if you have them you should post them. Dig into your filing cabinet or look on the wunderweb to show us where it doesn't work any better or worse than the Y dump.
 
Settle down pilgrim! The picture you posted isn't even close to what this guy has done.

If you already have the data and test results then share them.

You obviously have saved all this info and data so you could prove him wrong, RIGHT??

I personally don't care what the results are but if you have them you should post them. Dig into your filing cabinet or look on the wunderweb to show us where it doesn't work any better or worse than the Y dump.

Pony up.. You pay for the data .. Take me up on my offer .. Lets prove it on YOUR car.. If im right YOU flip the bill for all the work ..
 
I am merely a hobbyists without a real keyboard so take it fwiw.

The whole concept makes a lot of sense and is pretty neat.
Not sure it will work on MY car though because:
1-I have an exh system that should be good to 80 lbs/min air flow.
2-The car is detuned to 60% of that.
3-My car has a turbo and the pressure differential b4/after the turbine is well north of 30 psi. If this delta P aproaches 15%, I will open the dump and reevaluate.

Again, great innovative product/concept/design.
 
Yep. That's all that matters. The turbo is just a windmill with a high pressure on one side and a slightly higher than atmospheric pressure on the other side.

If you're not corking up the exit, you've got nothing to gain by ''uncorking' something that isn't stopped up.


Since you mentioned earlier that this product is to make noise at car shows or for 'fun drives', it should work just fine. More expensive than a plain ole dump, but will still finish in the top 1 while bench racing.
This X 2 ... totally agree Earl ...

Best Dump option by far is one that the Turbo Buicks seldom use .. and its based on how easy it is just to get a Y - dump and toss that on...

personally im dead set ona low profile dump just as pictured above with a intergrated swing valve based on boost .. you can set it at any pressure threshold and it closes so when your driving NO NOISE .

Im getting too old and fussy to get under a car get dirty , burn my hands to open a manual dump which after the first 5 minutes of driving and getting the whistle rush ... I've had enough of the belching noise .. and all for what ? the few hundredths of a second I might gain .. bleh

but to the OP .. Give it a Whirl and see what shakes loose for ya .. if your able to find that elusive 40 hp in a dump and market it .. the peeps will be all over it ...

nowdays its becoming obvious you can package a TURD and sell it .. nobody says it actually has to work and make more hp ... it just has to be available :)


I've had a mental image in my head for a while for a boost actuated dump. Seems pretty neat to me on cars with restrictive exhausts. Turn it for cruise at low RPM's and have the WOT tune set up for an open dump. It'd be easy to add an electrical switch to force it to stay quiet (or loud) for special occations too.

I never built it because I don't really think there's a market, performance wise, to reinvent the wheel here... But like I mentioned earlier.. Marketing. :)

I do have a brand new 3" electric dump cutout with a wireless remote if you're interested. It can be actuated with a rocker switch or a key fob. Next time you're getting under the car and tired of it, shoot me a PM. :)
 
Yep. That's all that matters. The turbo is just a windmill with a high pressure on one side and a slightly higher than atmospheric pressure on the other side.

If you're not corking up the exit, you've got nothing to gain by ''uncorking' something that isn't stopped up.


Since you mentioned earlier that this product is to make noise at car shows or for 'fun drives', it should work just fine. More expensive than a plain ole dump, but will still finish in the top 1 while bench racing.



I've had a mental image in my head for a while for a boost actuated dump. Seems pretty neat to me on cars with restrictive exhausts. Turn it for cruise at low RPM's and have the WOT tune set up for an open dump. It'd be easy to add an electrical switch to force it to stay quiet (or loud) for special occations too.

I never built it because I don't really think there's a market, performance wise, to reinvent the wheel here... But like I mentioned earlier.. Marketing. :)

I do have a brand new 3" electric dump cutout with a wireless remote if you're interested. It can be actuated with a rocker switch or a key fob. Next time you're getting under the car and tired of it, shoot me a PM. :)

Thats why i set my car up with a boost activated opening... Because im lazy and dont want to even hit a button or activate a switch :)
 
Yep. That's all that matters. The turbo is just a windmill with a high pressure on one side and a slightly higher than atmospheric pressure on the other side.

If you're not corking up the exit, you've got nothing to gain by ''uncorking' something that isn't stopped up.


Since you mentioned earlier that this product is to make noise at car shows or for 'fun drives', it should work just fine. More expensive than a plain ole dump, but will still finish in the top 1 while bench racing.



I've had a mental image in my head for a while for a boost actuated dump. Seems pretty neat to me on cars with restrictive exhausts. Turn it for cruise at low RPM's and have the WOT tune set up for an open dump. It'd be easy to add an electrical switch to force it to stay quiet (or loud) for special occations too.

I never built it because I don't really think there's a market, performance wise, to reinvent the wheel here... But like I mentioned earlier.. Marketing. :)

I do have a brand new 3" electric dump cutout with a wireless remote if you're interested. It can be actuated with a rocker switch or a key fob. Next time you're getting under the car and tired of it, shoot me a PM. :)
This has been done with a factory wastegate actuator. It works beautifully.
 
A quick Google search for boost activated exhaust cutout will bring up a bunch of options. Images show a variety of designs.
 
A quick Google search for boost activated exhaust cutout will bring up a bunch of options. Images show a variety of designs.
Correct Pronto. They vary in effectiveness, but none flow all to the atmosphere. We just feel that our design does that job well. Some agree with us, some don't. That's why it's great to live in a country where we can agree to disagree;)
 
Correct Pronto. They vary in effectiveness, but none flow all to the atmosphere. We just feel that our design does that job well. Some agree with us, some don't. That's why it's great to live in a country where we can agree to disagree;)
Maybe you could design a way turn that flap into the pipe to shunt all the flow like your current design. The flap could be long and eliptical so it goes deep in the pipe. You could keep the rectangular 4 bolt design but the actuator would be attached.
 
This product is like the manual version of the noweeds exhaust diverter. I like it. Thanks for the vision and balls to try something.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
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Hmmm I know it's been mentioned if it was part of a bolt on fender dump it would be cool I like the flame show when on the 2 step
 
Correct Pronto. They vary in effectiveness, but none flow all to the atmosphere.

That's my point. Any airflow that can't easily make it out of a plain ole dump can head down the full exhaust if it want's to. Why deprive it of the past of least resistance? Other than marketing, of course. :)
 
This has been done with a factory wastegate actuator. It works beautifully.

I was thinking of double action pneumatic cylinders that I have laying on my cluttered up coffee table. That way vacuum can 'suck' it shout without having to use a spring. Should have much faster actuation that way too. I built some large 4" butterflies for my upswept drag headers going on my BBC jetboat that will use those.
 
My situation my GN is going to be the car show, long family trip and occasional track car.
I am seriously considering installing a cat on my car just to control them nasty smelling fumes.
I have been considering installing a cut-out BEFORE the cat -- yes i will need to push the cat back some to fit a cut-out -- and was considering doing it like Turbo89 picture with an electric valve on the end of it. In my case the cut-out will probably be worth it performance wise a few times over as it will be helping my exhaust avoid a Cat and very quiet and restrictive muffler.

Probably -- To the guys that must have working cats in them crazy states this can be well worth it.---- BTW i don't know shit about them crazy do's and don'ts exhaust laws in them crazy states.
 
Our belief is that anything that can restrict the flow is not good. Exhaust pipe itself is restrictive, even mandrel bent. The friction of the exhaust as it flows against the pipe (skin friction) slows the flow. Any bends, crush/wrinkle especially slows flow. Any muffler restricts flow, some much worse than others. We have always believed that a Turbo wants that exhaust gone asap while keeping the velocity up. We feel that even 50% of the exhaust going down a exhaust to the back, especially a stock system will encounter restriction and the slowing of the exhaust flow as it cools. Again we can agree to disagree. Plus yes, it sounds cool. I love the sound of exhaust:D
 
I found a great article by a Turbo Systems Engineer from Garrett Turbos. It's long but very informative.Turbo Exhaust Theory


I stumbled across this information on a forum.

The following excerpts are from Jay Kavanaugh, a turbo systems engineer at Garret, responding to a thread on Impreza.net regarding exhaust design and exhaust theory:


“Howdy,

This thread was brought to my attention by a friend of mine in hopes of shedding some light on the issue of exhaust size selection for turbocharged vehicles. Most of the facts have been covered already. FWIW I'm an turbocharger development engineer for Garrett Engine Boosting Systems.

N/A cars: As most of you know, the design of turbo exhaust systems runs counter to exhaust design for n/a vehicles. N/A cars utilize exhaust velocity (not back pressure) in the collector to aid in scavenging other cylinders during the blow down process. It just so happens that to get the appropriate velocity, you have to squeeze down the diameter of the discharge of the collector (aka the exhaust), which also induces back pressure. The back pressure is an undesirable byproduct of the desire to have a certain degree of exhaust velocity. Go too big, and you lose velocity and its associated beneficial scavenging effect. Too small and the back pressure skyrockets, more than offsetting any gain made by scavenging. There is a happy medium here.

For turbo cars, you throw all that out the window. You want the exhaust velocity to be high upstream of the turbine (i.e. in the header). You'll notice that primaries of turbo headers are smaller diameter than those of an n/a car of two-thirds the horsepower. The idea is to get the exhaust velocity up quickly, to get the turbo spooling as early as possible. Here, getting the boost up early is a much more effective way to torque than playing with tuned primary lengths and scavenging. The scavenging effects are small compared to what you'd get if you just got boost sooner instead. You have a turbo; you want boost. Just don't go so small on the header's primary diameter that you choke off the high end.

Downstream of the turbine (aka the turbo back exhaust), you want the least back pressure possible. No ifs, and's, or buts. Stick a Hoover on the tailpipe if you can. The general rule of "larger is better" (to the point of diminishing returns) of turbo back exhausts is valid. Here, the idea is to minimize the pressure downstream of the turbine in order to make the most effective use of the pressure that is being generated upstream of the turbine. Remember, a turbine operates via a pressure ratio. For a given turbine inlet pressure, you will get the highest pressure ratio across the turbine when you have the lowest possible discharge pressure. This means the turbine is able to do the most amount of work possible (i.e. drive the compressor and make boost) with the available inlet pressure.


Again, less pressure downstream of the turbine is goodness. This approach minimizes the time-to-boost (maximizes boost response) and will improve engine VE throughout the rev range.

As for 2.5" vs. 3.0", the "best" turbo back exhaust depends on the amount of flow, or horsepower. At 250 hp, 2.5" is fine. Going to 3" at this power level won't get you much, if anything, other than a louder exhaust note. 300 hp and you're definitely sub optimal with 2.5". For 400-450 hp, even 3" is on the small side.”

"As for the geometry of the exhaust at the turbine discharge, the most optimal configuration would be a gradual increase in diameter from the turbine's exducer to the desired exhaust diameter-- via a straight conical diffuser of 7-12° included angle (to minimize flow separation and skin friction losses) mounted right at the turbine discharge. Many turbochargers found in diesels have this diffuser section cast right into the turbine housing. A hyperbolic increase in diameter (like a trumpet snorkus) is theoretically ideal but I've never seen one in use (and doubt it would be measurably superior to a straight diffuser). The waste gate flow would be via a completely divorced (separated from the main turbine discharge flow) dump tube. Due the realities of packaging, cost, and emissions compliance this config is rarely possible on street cars. You will, however, see this type of layout on dedicated race vehicles.

A large "bell mouth" config which combines the turbine discharge and wastegate flow (without a divider between the two) is certainly better than the compromised stock routing, but not as effective as the above.

If an integrated exhaust (non-divorced waste gate flow) is required, keep the waste gate flow separate from the main turbine discharge flow for ~12-18" before reintroducing it. This will minimize the impact on turbine efficiency-- the introduction of the waste gate flow disrupts the flow field of the main turbine discharge flow.

Necking the exhaust down to a sub optimal diameter is never a good idea, but if it is necessary, doing it further downstream is better than doing it close to the turbine discharge since it will minimize the exhaust's contribution to back pressure. Better yet: don't neck down the exhaust at all.

Also, the temperature of the exhaust coming out of a cat is higher than the inlet temperature, due to the exothermic oxidation of unburned hydrocarbons in the cat. So the total heat loss (and density increase) of the gases as it travels down the exhaust is not as prominent as it seems.


Another thing to keep in mind is that cylinder scavenging takes place where the flows from separate cylinders merge (i.e. in the collector). There is no such thing as cylinder scavenging downstream of the turbine, and hence, no reason to desire high exhaust velocity here. You will only introduce unwanted back pressure.

Other things you can do (in addition to choosing an appropriate diameter) to minimize exhaust back pressure in a turbo back exhaust are: avoid crush-bent tubes (use mandrel bends); avoid tight-radius turns (keep it as straight as possible); avoid step changes in diameter; avoid "cheated" radii (cuts that are non-perpendicular); use a high flow cat; use a straight-thru perforated core muffler... etc.”

"Comparing the two bell mouth designs, I've never seen either one so I can only speculate. But based on your description, and assuming neither of them have a divider wall/tongue between the turbine discharge and wg dump, I'd venture that you'd be hard pressed to measure a difference between the two. The more gradual taper intuitively appears more desirable, but it's likely that it's beyond the point of diminishing returns. Either one sounds like it will improve the waste gate's discharge coefficient over the stock config, which will constitute the single biggest difference. This will allow more control over boost creep. Neither is as optimal as the divorced waste gate flow arrangement, however.

There's more to it, though-- if a larger bell mouth is excessively large right at the turbine discharge (a large step diameter increase), there will be an unrecoverable dump loss that will contribute to back pressure. This is why a gradual increase in diameter, like the conical diffuser mentioned earlier, is desirable at the turbine discharge.

As for primary lengths on turbo headers, it is advantageous to use equal-length primaries to time the arrival of the pulses at the turbine equally and to keep cylinder reversion balanced across all cylinders. This will improve boost response and the engine's VE. Equal-length is often difficult to achieve due to tight packaging, fabrication difficulty, and the desire to have runners of the shortest possible length.”

"Here's a worked example (simplified) of how larger exhausts help turbo cars:

Say you have a turbo operating at a turbine pressure ratio (aka expansion ratio) of 1.8:1. You have a small turbo back exhaust that contributes, say, 10 psig back pressure at the turbine discharge at red line. The total back pressure seen by the engine (upstream of the turbine) in this case is:

(14.5 +10)*1.8 = 44.1 psia = 29.6 psig total back pressure

o here, the turbine contributed 19.6 psig of back pressure to the total.

Now you slap on a proper low-back pressure, big turbo back exhaust. Same turbo, same boost, etc. You measure 3 psig back pressure at the turbine discharge. In this case the engine sees just 17 psig total back pressure! And the turbine's contribution to the total back pressure is reduced to 14 psig (note: this is 5.6 psig lower than its contribution in the "small turboback" case).

So in the end, the engine saw a reduction in back pressure of 12.6 psig when you swapped turbo backs in this example. This reduction in back pressure is where all the engine's VE gains come from.

This is why larger exhausts make such big gains on nearly all stock turbo cars-- the turbine compounds the downstream back pressure via its expansion ratio. This is also why bigger turbos make more power at a given boost level-- they improve engine VE by operating at lower turbine expansion ratios for a given boost level.

As you can see, the back pressure penalty of running a too-small exhaust (like 2.5" for 350 hp) will vary depending on the match. At a given power level, a smaller turbo will generally be operating at a higher turbine pressure ratio and so will actually make the engine more sensitive to the back pressure downstream of the turbine than a larger turbine/turbo would.
 
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