Granddaddy of no start issues? Experts please come inside...

If everything else checks out (cam sensor, crank, coil pack, etc), all the injectors could be literally stuck open. Even one stuck open (60#) was enough to make my T hard to start. I sent them to Chuck Leeper to get fixed.
 
Latest Update

1. Checked pwr at A6 and C16 (11.4 and 11.8v respectively)

2. Re-checked scanmaster--- Apparently wasn't getting good connection at ALDL
Numbers are as follows:
AF-05
L8- 08
Bat-11.3
Int-128
BL-128
CLT-64
ATS-66
TPS-.44
IAC-140
MAL-00

3. Tried to "bump" the cam sensor went counter clockwise and back clockwise in small increments. Nothing...

Too tired to look at it anymore tonight.:mad::mad:
 
I agree with bogies87, did you put a different cap on the cam sensor? And since you have changed the timing chain, we can rule that out. So for what it's worth, I will offer a few suggestions from my experiences. First off, you can disconnect the orange computer wire at the battery, squirt fuel in the intake and the car will start and run!! I tried it when I had a similar problem. SOOO, I would start from square one,with a new set of plugs, unhook the computer, therefore taking the injectors and fuel pump out of the equation. Fill a suirt type oil can with fuel(or you can use starter fluid!!) and with the hose pulled off the throttle body, have someone crank the engine while you squirt fuel into the the throttle body. If the car starts, continue to squirt fuel as you hold the throttle open slightly. If the car continues to run, you probably have a fuel pump or injection problem. This sounds primitive, but believe me it works. Also, did you notice when you pulled the plug to check for spark if it was firing at top dead center? To be sure, try it again and put your finger over the plug hole and see if the wire fires on the compression stroke. (You may need some extra fingers for this!!!) If not, you may have a timing problem. I would then check the interrupter ring on the harmonic balancer to see if it has loosened up and moved. The other question I would add is; did you change anything before this problem began? It seems most all the other bases have been covered. Good luck. I'm anxious to hear what the gremlin is.
 
howdies86: New cam sensor with new cap was swapped in when I managed to rule out the spark plugs, ignition module, coil pack , & plug wires.

I have also tried the fuel in the intake method; still no go.

Just to clarify/update so people don't have to slog through this whole thread:

1. Car has maybe 100 miles since new t-chain. It was and has been starting and running fine on a regular basis
2. This car is generally in the garage and is just started, warmed up, and put back in the garage
3. When the "no start" occurred, NOTHING had changed. I had started it about a week earlier with ZERO issues.
4. To date I have checked the following:
a. spark plugs (put in new ones ac delco)
b. wires (swapped some "known working" ones)
c. ignition module and coil pack (swapped in a "known working" set)
d. pnk/blk wires for proper voltage at the injector harness, the ignition module and the ECM. (all good)
e. Orange wire at the ECM for proper voltage (good)
f. I have pulled the old cam sensor and cap and swapped in a new complete unit
g. I have swapped out the crank sensor for a new one
h. I have made sure FP at the rail is good and confirmed fuel pump is still kicking while I crank the key (Fuel pump is also hot wired and fuse is good)
i. I have checked all of the fuses (all good)
j. I have checked all of the grounds (all good)
k. I have swapped in a "known working" ECM
L. I have sprayed fuel in the intake and attempted to start (no good)
m. I have "bumped" the cam sensor while having the key turned (no good)
n. I have checked the crankshaft keyway for damage (all good)
o. I have attempted the "clear flood" method and car started and ran for 3-4 seconds
p. I have disconnected the MAF to see if there would be a difference (nothing)
q. I have managed to get the scanmaster to cooperate and have posted the numbers which seem to be in spec
r. I have insured that I have a full tank of fuel even added some xylene to make up for any quality issues from sitting (it's never had an issue)
s. I have insured that there are no critters and no damage to wires of any sort
t. SES light is on with key on engine off
u. there is no factory or aftermarket alarm
v. there has been no hacking of the harness by prior owners or myself
w. I have checked for maybe a burnt wire or a short and cannot seem to find evidence of anything like that


Things I have not yet done: (that are on my list)

1. Removed the cam sensor again
2. Pulled the valve covers
3. done a compression or leak down test
 
Do you have a compression checker? To do a basic check without one, pull #1 plug and put finger in the hole :p. Turn over engine once. You'll know if you have compression.

Assuming you have compression, pick up a can of ether (starting fluid). Give it a little shot post maf and see how it responds.

RL
 
Finger in the hole? If that is acceptable for compression testing then I DO HAVE compression...
I already sprayed some fuel down the t/b... Around step 3-4 of the million so far... (no go)
 
Next time you pull the spark plugs squirt some oil in the cylinders, all the fuel probably washed the cylinders down.
 
can u see any mal codes on scanmaster when cranking engine over? it might show a code. i only say this as when i swapped a motor, i also went through the cam sensor etc no start thing but when i was cranking it over and had the sc on mal it was toggling a couple of codes back and forth. it would sputter for a couple of seconds. one of the codes was for maf, so i had the kid quickly disconnect the maf as i sputter started it and viola...she fired up into a high idle. something to try...those maf's are a pita and cause a car to run real rich.
 
Have you tried swapping in a known good MAF? This sounds like a similar problem like I had on my LT1 Camaro. On the MAF, one of the resistors that connects between 2 of the polls became detached. This caused the MAF to max out or read WOT all the time, causing it not to start. I never got a trouble code or check engine light for it. When I checked the reading with a scanner, it would read 486 GPS as soon as I turned the key. Only way it would start is with the accelerator floored (clear flood mode) or with the MAF disconnected. I think thats where your problem may lie. Good luck, hope you get it figured out soon.



Nick
 
Sounds like it's flooded with fuel, you stated it tried to start after cranking in "clear flood". If the fuel is old and plugs are wet might just be flooded with stale fuel. Have had may cars towed into the dealership I work at and cause of no start was old fuel, especially with 10% ethanol fuels. Try fresh fuel...Good luck hope this helps.
 
You could try running the ignition module in bypass mode. Years ago we would set base timing by unplugging the "bypass" wire and letting the distributor (HEI) run by itself.

The ignition module will do the same thing. Just release the bypass wire from the ECM plug. Its a tan/black wire in connector location D5.

(just a thought)

Bob
 
Although, after thinking this stuff over, the clear-flood thing is intriguing. The fact that it started and ran for a few seconds tells us that a lot of things are right (cam/crank sensors, and such)

Can you beg/borrow/steal (buy) a PowerLogger and log the start? It would tell us a LOT....

Bob
 
try a clear-flood start with the MAF unplugged and see if it runs longer.
 
when you say that when you try to start the car turns over--- does it turn over normal or does it turn over quickly?
 
Wow! lots of good ideas still coming. Thanks to everyone for all the help!:cool:

DailyDrifter: Might be an idea to spray something in the cylinders- I'll see what I can do

Fast4Ward: I have not tried to see if there are mal codes while cranking- I will check and see

NJLT1SS: I have not swapped in a maf as that one "was good" - My other car has the lt1/translator set up--- I suppose I can swap them

Attype: Fuel tank is full... Octane should be 94+ ( I could drain the tank but that would be a huge PITA!- Trying to avoid that if possible)

TurboBob: I will try this bypass mode as well as the clear flood with maf unplugged.... Probably time to start looking at a powerlogger...

theraf8100: I've swapped ecm's still same issue- two TT chips bad? Not very likely. (And they work in the other car)

NOTSOFAST: when I crank the engine, I get the normal "vroom" of the initial start and then nothing---Whole car rumbles to life- almost...
 
I would like to make suggestion to check

Since you did a timing chain in the not too distant past

I would check the crank HUB / Balancerf for tightness to the crank.

If this has sheared the keyway or it is just loose I have seen many intermittent issues with this.

Rmove the accessory belt and then check the balancer tightness.

Let us know what happens.
 
Clutching at straws here, and I'm sure you've checked but I'll ask anyway. Have you checked to ENTIRE injector harness? Looking for pinched wires, or frays. Check the entire harness all the way back to the connector under the ignition module.
Also, make sure the ignition module is securely bolted back down after you lift it to inspect the wires. It is bolted down well now, right?
 
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