Alcoholism...... Disease or Behavior Choice?

[kirbdawg69]

Its a disease, that you can be hard wired from the time you are born. If you have parents, grandparents ect. that drank then you have a much higher chance of becoming an Alocholic. Now I belive that the medical field uses the term "Alocholic" a little loosely. If you think that you might have a problem stop drinking for ONE year and see if you can do it? If you cant then you may have a problem. If if has caused Legal problems, relationship problems, money problems, job problems.... then you might be an Alocholic.

I could never put the bottle down and hit many lows in my life, it has cost me alot of pain and money and stress in my life. That is why I am sitting in rehad writing this! I will be in here over x-mas and new years and it the best thing that has ever happen to me, and ill will remember these holidays!!! So if you are one of the ones that say it is a choice then you may be lucky and never have to stuggle with this. And for the Alocholics and addicts that are still suffering I put my left foot in for ya'

Merry x-mas everyone!

 

[GNBRETT]

Its a disease, that you can be hard wired from the time you are born. If you have parents, grandparents ect. that drank then you have a much higher chance of becoming an Alocholic. Now I belive that the medical field uses the term "Alocholic" a little loosely. If you think that you might have a problem stop drinking for ONE year and see if you can do it? If you cant then you may have a problem. If if has caused Legal problems, relationship problems, money problems, job problems.... then you might be an Alocholic.

I could never put the bottle down and hit many lows in my life, it has cost me alot of pain and money and stress in my life. That is why I am sitting in rehad writing this! I will be in here over x-mas and new years and it the best thing that has ever happen to me, and ill will remember these holidays!!! So if you are one of the ones that say it is a choice then you may be lucky and never have to stuggle with this. And for the Alocholics and addicts that are still suffering I put my left foot in for ya'

Merry x-mas everyone!

It's either a disease or an addiction. It can't be both.

 

[GlockandRoll]

I think you mistakenly assume my calling ones choosing to drink, a disease, when that is not the point I am trying to make.

The disease is a brain disorder, you did not read what I posted.. they have clearly identified the A1 allele of the dopamine D2 receptor (DRD2) gene, normal people have an A2 allele.
ALCOHOLICS WITH THE DOPAMINE RECEPTOR DRD2 A1 ALLELE HAVE LOWER PLATELET MONOAMINE OXIDASE-B ACTIVITY THAN THOSE WITH THE A2 ALLELE: A PRELIMINARY STUDY -- Eriksson et al. 35 (5): 493 -- Alcohol and Alcoholism

Do some research on the biogenic amine endorphin system, and the chemical messengers that basically control all aspects of your brian function.

This should be an easy read for a non-medical person such as your or I.
Dopamine receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Trust me... it's a disease.
Re-posting to let it sink in!

 

[GNBRETT]

Trust me... it's a disease.
Re-posting to let it sink in!

Opioids will excite Dopamine receptors as well. That's actually pretty old news.

Drugs of abuse all share a common action imo. They act on the brain's reward system. They all share the ability to increase the levels of dopamine in the nucleus. This accounts for the rewarding (pleasure) effects of abused drugs. Alcohol makes you feel good. Makes some feel a hell of a lot better then others no doubt, but without the feel-good effect there would be no Alcoholics.

 

[GlockandRoll]

I think you mistakenly assume my calling ones choosing to drink, a disease, when that is not the point I am trying to make.

The disease is a brain disorder, you did not read what I posted.. they have clearly identified the A1 allele of the dopamine D2 receptor (DRD2) gene, normal people have an A2 allele.
ALCOHOLICS WITH THE DOPAMINE RECEPTOR DRD2 A1 ALLELE HAVE LOWER PLATELET MONOAMINE OXIDASE-B ACTIVITY THAN THOSE WITH THE A2 ALLELE: A PRELIMINARY STUDY -- Eriksson et al. 35 (5): 493 -- Alcohol and Alcoholism

Do some research on the biogenic amine endorphin system, and the chemical messengers that basically control all aspects of your brian function.

This should be an easy read for a non-medical person such as your or I.
Dopamine receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opioids will excite Dopamine receptors as well. That's actually pretty old news.

Drugs of abuse all share a common action imo. They act on the brain's reward system. They all share the ability to increase the levels of dopamine in the nucleus. This accounts for the rewarding (pleasure) effects of abused drugs. Alcohol makes you feel good. Makes some feel a hell of a lot better then others no doubt, but without the feel-good effect there would be no Alcoholics.

Your a jackass, you didn't know anything about it untill I posted it...

*** subscription canceled ****

 

[GNBRETT]

Your a jackass, you didn't know anything about it untill I posted it...

*** subscription canceled ****

lol.... yea, Dopamine was discovered by you. You really are smart.... Just cause you copied and pasted a medical text doesn't mean people are not aware of what Dopamine is or does. Its a good article, wasn't written by you tho and doesnt change the fact that ALL (feel good) drugs release or convert to give you a HIGH. That's not rocket science and it certainly does not make it a Disease as a result.

 

[t-topflyer]

The statement that it has to be an addiction or a disease doesn't make any sense, since addiction is a disease.

 

[GNBRETT]

The statement that it has to be an addiction or a disease doesn't make any sense, since addiction is a disease.

Really, you can be addicted to Cancer? Maybe you can explain how that happens? What about those addicted to Heroin? Does that make Heroin a Disease to?

 

[t-topflyer]

Quit being such a dumba** and actually do some research to educate yourself. Cancer is a treatable disease as is addiction to anything such as sex, alcohol, cigarettes etc. Alcoholism is the name for the addiction to alcohol. Alcoholism is an addiction. Unsubscribed as this is beginning to insult my education and intelligence. Merry Christmas.

 

[GNBRETT]

Quit being such a dumba** and actually do some research to educate yourself. Cancer is a treatable disease as is addiction to anything such as sex, alcohol, cigarettes etc. Alcoholism is the name for the addiction to alcohol. Alcoholism is an addiction. Unsubscribed as this is beginning to insult my education and intelligence. Merry Christmas.

You continue to make the same lame argument as others have done. No one becomes addicted to Cancer dumb ass. You either were born with it or contracted it via environmental factors.

Addiction is something you have chosen to engage in. No one chooses to acquire Cancer. Your gonna compare the addiction of alcohol, sex, cigarettes, etc... to Cancer? I really hope ur not that ignorant.

Alcoholism is an addiction. No one disputes that. What medications are prescribed to rid Alcohol from ones body? There are plenty of medications that rid Cancer from ones body. Name me a medication that does that for alcohol? One that actually works?

Just because you can't support ur opinion with an intelligent response does not mean you were insulted. If you cant respond back because you know ur wrong then just leave at that. Dont try to get all Righteous....lol

 

[GregInAtl]

For it to be a disease it could pop up in a child or teen before ever drinking and have symptoms that needed treatment. Alcoholism has no symptoms prior to initial consumption so to not be an alcoholic is easy; never drink it, you'll never be an alcoholic. That is a 100% effective method, thus not making it 100% avoidable, thus not a disease.
So its not possible? Shennanigans, I am 38, never had a drop. I am not saying I am better, but I have saved a ton of $, only acted like an a$$ on purpose, and dont worry about alcoholism. several major benefits. Now back to sniffin glue.

 

[GNBRETT]

For it to be a disease it could pop up in a child or teen before ever drinking and have symptoms that needed treatment. Alcoholism has no symptoms prior to initial consumption so to not be an alcoholic is easy; never drink it, you'll never be an alcoholic. That is a 100% effective method, thus not making it 100% avoidable, thus not a disease.

Exactly. I guess some people are more EDUCATED and INTELLIGENT then others...

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Guess you could call me and Neil drinking buddies, i actually feel bad that he is lying about how little he drinks, ive personally seen him drink more than 6 in one night

Well i guess its my choice to drink or not, and since i like to drink alot, i guess you could call me a alky hollic.

At this point i wouldnt call my drinking ability a disease, id call it a social experiment and my book will be out in less than one year.

This morning I woke up at 7am, shoveled some snow, warmed up my diesel since we had 9 inches of snow last night. Snow drifts 1/2 way up the truck...

Finished at 8:30....

Guess what sounded good at 8:30am ? Grey Goose vodka and juice.
3 shots and i was feeling good, man almost thought i was on vacation in vegas again.... If you cant enjoy life, whats the point in living at all ?

Does this make me a bad person? Hell no, i had a few. Waited till noon and been drinking ever since.

I cannot wait to break a leg over the summer so i can drink all summer long, man that would be tits!

BW :smile:

 

[JOHNDEEREGN]

Guys, lets quit beating this to death. Some think its a choice, some think its a disease.

AGREE TO DISAGREE and help someone if they need it ok.

Lets get back to being friends on a Buick Board ok.

MERRY CHRISTMAS--

Ty

 

[t-topflyer]

You're just never gonna get it so there is really no need to continue this thread. The problem with the disease of addiction is the lack of education. There are several medications to relieve the symptoms of the disease of addiction. Please see my prior posts. Eliminating alcohol from the body statement doesn't make any sense either since that is just a symptom of the disease of addiction and will eliminate itself in due time. The disease is still present though and likely was there at an early age or even at birth. Not activated until exposed to the substance that triggers it. Same as cancer if you want to make that comparison. Cancer isn't active till it is exposed to its trigger either. Truth of the matter is that unless you've been directly affected by it or have done extensive research as I have your never really gonna understand. Never said you could be addicted to cancer. That statement alone shows your lack of education. You caan be addicted to things that cause cancer such as cigarettes. You're simply never gonna get it though.

 

[GNBRETT]

Personally, I simply feel labeling it a Disease is an easy way out, that it allows alcoholics to absolve all of their responsibility from their addictive behavior because society has labeled it as something they cannot control and therefore are not responsible for their behaviors as a result.

The addiction is more a state of mind than anything else and that it’s a matter of will in choosing to overcome and concur the addiction of the mind. I don't say mind and body because the body does not need alcohol to function. Which is why I have a real issue when society compares the effects of Alcohol on the body vs. Cancer in the manner of labeling it a disease. A body needs healthy cells to fight off infection therefore labeling Cancer a Disease. The body does not need Alcohol for anything.

I know I have pushed a few buttons here and im not trying to offend anyone but if your going to describe Alcohol as the trigger to a disease then you would have to classify Heroin in that same catagory because Heroin is waaaaaay more addictive and damaging to ones health and well being then Alcohol. Both are drugs period! And almost ALL who try Heroin become addicted (Ur telling me they ALL have addictive personalities..... BS!!!) I would say it is the complete OPPOSITE for those who try Alcohol. Most ALL do not become dependant.

Heroin is a better candidate to be labeled a DISEASE then alcohol based on the statistics alone. Meth is the same thing. Almost everyone gets hooked. They too have addictive personalities and therefore can't control themselves triggering an addictive response and therefore now a Methhead?..... Try classifying Heroin or meth as a disease and see how many people support that.

The classifying of Alcoholism as a Disease was the worst thing the ADA could have ever done for alcoholics in my opinion. Thinking deep down inside ur head that the reality of ur situation is "I have a disease and therefore there is little I am going to beable to do to kick this. I mean chit, I have a disease!!!!! I can't help myself".

If it was a Disease, a true Disease then those who were labeled an Alcoholic and therefore having the Disease of alcoholism then they would have it forever no? It's a disease right with no known cure.......

That is simply not the case tho! There are many who put it down and never pick it up again period! It's mind over desire. You can't turn a Disease on and off when things get rough in ur life. Many function like that and we all know it. Others, never look back no matter how crappy their life currently is or might about to be.

 

[t-topflyer]

Sucks trying to respond to this on a blackberry otherwise I would write a lot more, but anyway I don't understand why you keep trying to label substances as a disease. The disease is addiction to alcohol, heroin, meth etc. Furthermore yes there is no cure for alcoholism yes just like there is no cure for AIDS or cancer but they can all be treated to the point that there are no signs of it. The body needs healthy cells to fight off these diseases just like alcoholism. Need to eliminate the alcohol though and take meds like Campral to aid with the repair process or you can choose to tough it out. Once someone is cancer free they are referred to as a cancer survivor just like an alcoholic is an alcoholic in recovery. Either disease can recur though and be symptomatic.

 

[t-topflyer]

Based on Greg in Atl reasoning diabetes, cancer, AIDS and other conditions must not be diseases because
as children an individual may have shown no signs of these conditions. Furthermore these conditions were 100 percent
avoidable due to activities like overeating, smoking, and permiscuous activities. Seems intelligent and logical
to me. Problem is they had the predisposition to the disease to start with and were exposed to a trigger that allowed it
to manifest. However others may be exposed to the same triggers
and never develop the disease. Same with alcoholism you never know till exposed. Also lots of alcoholics share
similar personality defects very evident in childhood that should be or should have been treated and later
in life they may find that alcohol treats these issues and develop an addiction to it. Problem ends up that
the solution becomes the problem and you end up in trouble big time in an alcoholic hell. That's when
you realize you need help are in over your head & symptomatic and need to seek treatment for your disease to have
any chance at survival.

 

[t-topflyer]

Ty has hit the nail on the head and with that I'm outta here.....back to Buicks

 

[GregInAtl]

Based on Greg in Atl reasoning diabetes, cancer, AIDS and other conditions must not be diseases because
as children an individual may have shown no signs of these conditions. Furthermore these conditions were 100 percent
avoidable due to activities like overeating, smoking, and permiscuous activities. Seems intelligent and logical
to me. Problem is they had the predisposition to the disease to start with and were exposed to a trigger that allowed it
to manifest. However others may be exposed to the same triggers
and never develop the disease. Same with alcoholism you never know till exposed. Also lots of alcoholics share
similar personality defects very evident in childhood that should be or should have been treated and later
in life they may find that alcohol treats these issues and develop an addiction to it. Problem ends up that
the solution becomes the problem and you end up in trouble big time in an alcoholic hell. That's when
you realize you need help are in over your head & symptomatic and need to seek treatment for your disease to have
any chance at survival.

I dont want to sound argumentative, but you missed my point;
The things you mention are caught sadly by accident in many cases yes, however, they are also passed w/o doing anything. AIDS is caught by "doing" in many cases, then passed through your DNA to unborn children w/o them doing anything... thus a disease.

Diabetes is also a disease, it also follows the same traits, you can do EVERYTHING right and end up w/ it. I agree eating poorly, or drinking a lot of soda will INCREASE the odds, but unlike alcohol is to alcoholism it wont CREATE the probability. I have a diabetic uncle that was born w/ it, has been taking shots in his belly for his entire life. He didn't do something at birth to create this in himself.
Here is the difference;
Alcoholism is a LIKELIHOOD or a PROPENSITY that is passed I can go that far w/ you and agree, however you can not be born w/ alcoholism, you can only be born w/ a gene that would make it more likely. Liklihood isnt a disease derivative. It is 100% avoidable by not drinking, where the others you mentioned have no 100% effective avoidance method.
You can be born w/ AIDS, Cancer, diabetes and the other things you mentioned. That is the medical difference. (in other words you cant catch alcoholism w/o alcohol, if so show me a documented case).

if you dont agree w/ this, Thats ok.