why no 700-r4 from the factory?

[1Badelky]

so, I have an EC with the 200-4r, and can understand putting it behind the 305, but the turbo buicks were designed to be beastly from the factory right?

so why did they not use a 700-r4? everyone at tranny shops around here tells me to throw my 200 off a bridge....

and I tried searching and got nothing

 

[GNeric]

Not sure exactly why GM decided to never use the 700 in the G-Body but as for everyone telling you to throw ur 2004R off a bridge comes from the 1st ones being weak and barely being able to handle the 150hp in front of them. That and mostly it's the people who don't know how to improve them to handle the horsepower that say they are total junk. There are enough parts out there to handle most anything you can throw at them in a full weight car (3600#) and still live. Up to that threshold, a TH400 is the better choice. The 700 has it's weak points also. I have built plenty that go behind big block Chevy engines and when they start hooking real hard and pushing lots of torque, things will happen with stock parts both 2004R and 700R4.

 

[bison]

so, I have an EC with the 200-4r, and can understand putting it behind the 305, but the turbo buicks were designed to be beastly from the factory right?

so why did they not use a 700-r4? everyone at tranny shops around here tells me to throw my 200 off a bridge....

and I tried searching and got nothing

Imo the 700 should be thrown off a bridge for sub 11 second applications. A properly built 200 4-R will go 9's in a full weight car and is more adaptable since it has a BOP pattern. The 700 is Chevy only. The 200 has better factory gearing for a high torque application also. Ill take the 200 any day over a 700 or its later designs. If the trans shops are telling you that than then they obviously have no clue about building an OD trans for use behind a high powered engine. Tell them to come to this forum for some enlightenment. There are at least 6 guys on here who can build a trans for 10 second or faster applications at 3500+lbs that regularly post here. There are a lot more who dont post much.

 

[GNBRETT]

Not sure where your getting ur info from but Bison is correct. They will hold about 800 hp if built with the right parts.

 

[1Badelky]

okay, I kinda figured they don't really know their info. I had one tell me the 700r4 would bolt right in.. I was like, so what about the xmember location? he said they were the same length, and the driveshaft would work too..... I just left.

I'm gonna try one more shop out of town to see what they say. supposedly he builds race tranny's

 

[bison]

I had one tell me the 700r4 would bolt right in.. I was like, so what about the xmember location? he said they were the same length, and the driveshaft would work too..... I just left.

Bolt right in- WRONG!
cossmember rear mount location- WRONG!
same length-WRONG!

Advise them to come on and check this thread instead of spewing BS. Use one of the guys on this board and you wont regret it.

 

[Grumpy]

hmmmm...from what I remember Steve Kaminski used 700s in a lot of F body V6 Turbo conversion cars he did years ago.. but whatever .. Ill stay with my POS 200R4

 

[ChrisF]

The 700 wasnt used because it didnt clear the flloorpan properly I'm told, and in 85 when they upgraded the 200 for the intercooled GN, they werent going to retool the floorpans for a model that was getting the axe 2 years later just to fit the 700. So beefing up the 200 was much more cost effective.

I could be wrong, but whats what I heard.

There are several great tranny guys on here, Bruce (WE4) has always been really cool and very helpful - He has earned my business anyday.

 

[mikestertwo]

The 700 wasnt used because it didnt clear the flloorpan properly I'm told, and in 85 when they upgraded the 200 for the intercooled GN, they werent going to retool the floorpans for a model that was getting the axe 2 years later just to fit the 700. So beefing up the 200 was much more cost effective.

I could be wrong, but whats what I heard.

A 700 will clear the floor pan with no problems. Been there done that. :smile:

 

[ChrisF]

Oh I believe it...but GM didn't think so apparently...

Lol....a 455 goes in the G body also....ask me how i know!

 

[bison]

hmmmm...from what I remember Steve Kaminski used 700s in a lot of F body V6 Turbo conversion cars he did years ago.. but whatever .. Ill stay with my POS 200R4

He did. But back then they werent running the numbers they do today. They can be made to work but its not an upgrade imo. Even the 200 was a problem with constant shaft breakage in high hp cars until Bruce released the billet drums. I got one of the first 4 back in 98 or 99. It has seen a lot of punishment since then:biggrin: .

 

[novaderrik]

the 700r4 was designed for cars with highway gearing- like 2.56 or 2.41 or so- and light duty trucks. that's why they put that deep first gear on it. in a car with deeper gears (like a turbo Buick) and a lot of torque (again, like a turbo Buick) it just doesn't match up too well.
yeah, they used it in F bodies and A bodies with lots of torqe and deeper gears, but in both cases, they need to be shifted to second gear really fast and it can be a chore to get them to hook up at WOT..

 

[jmd]

My 87 SS came with an 8CC 200-4R that was recently rebuilt (according to the prior owner of the car. It sucked and WOT shifts were unpredictable as to when they'd happen - 3500 or 4800 or ??.

I hated it so much that I put a 6CZ 200-4R in that worked fine in the 86 SS that I converted to stick. That lasted another 50k (for 185k total) until the bellhousing bolts backed out & the converter broke.

A friend had a '91 Z28 that we converted to stick. He had just rebuilt the 700-R4, so I used that. It crapped out ~10k later.

I bought an 83 SS to part out in Phx from a friend w/ good 700-R4 in it. That one gave me good service for ~35k.

My point? The 700-R4 fits fine but is close to the cat heat shield.

As well: by choice, I am going to be building the 6CZF 200-4R to put back in the car. It's only real fault at the time I pulled it was it wouldn't go into 4th at times, unless I goosed the throttle on / off / on / off, or ran it out to 5000rpm in 3rd gear. Had the converter not gotten broke, who knows how long it'd have lasted.

 

[GNeric]

HEY MATT, there you are. How you been doing? I just got done building a BQ trans for Lincoln for his coupe. How is AZ? Haven't been thru there since 22nd of last month and we just drove thru on our way to Vegas. :biggrin:

 

[jmd]

I can't believe I missed you; that was so close!!!!!! We just got back from a cruise out of L.A. and we bought a house in the east valley in August. (You haven't met this one; the last time I saw you & Tamara was when I was w/ my last NM girl.)

I searched online a few months back for your S / R name; your ph# w/ your name (yes, I know how to spell it!) and failing that, I said screw it, I'll build this trans. myself! Now it's gonna take me forever!