Which is preferred? Delco TPS sensors(which version) or Standard Motor Products SMP TH49

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
with the server crash and corresponding loss of months of data, bookmarks and threads selected to watch after October 18th,2019 are no longer tabbed...had a research project underway about the various versions of Delco TPS sensors and the aftermarket, but threads, images and the like are all jumbled now or bad links. so starting again...

at one time there was commentary that if buying a Delco TPS (GM 25036663 or Delco 213-918), be sure to find the ones made in Canada. I remember they (maybe not all versions) had the made in Canada red/white sticker with the maple leaf stuck on the outside flat area where the original had the last 4 of gm part # printed, 6663.

some were packaged in the clear cellophane "bag" with the blue GM stripe. others were boxed. I remember the bagged units had that maple leaf sticker. don't recall if the made in Canada boxed units had a sticker on the TPS directly.

The Delco part today (# 2134386 or 19187340) as seen below is a shiny plastic rather than the original matte plastic.
1578443637144.png


it's ironic that the Standard TPS part - TH49 - with its matte finish, as pictured below, looks just like the original factory part (minus the white lettering for 6663 and that other 4-digit above it).
1578443741906.png


functionally, they probably all work the same. were the past comments/threads to get the Delco units made in Canada, if wanting a Delco TPS, because the more recently produced units as pictured above are made overseas? China?

Or was there some reliability issue at one time and the Canada-made units were not impacted?
 

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
@SCOOBY DOO, thanks for the reply.

the Casper's TPS is for the 84-85 hot air cars. http://www.casperselectronics.com/c...roduct/product&path=7_53_54_11&product_id=912

I had drafted a white paper tech report on someone's thread in the past who asked about the difference between 84-85 vs 86-87 (& 89 TTA) TPS. other than significant price difference, the 84-85 version has the lever rotating oppositely to the 86-87 version. I hope that write-up is still around as that thread was recent, in the past year or two - definitely before October 18th.

the white paper continues...

for the 86-87 GM Delco TPS units...GM discontinued 25036663 in June 2007.

http://oemcats.com/oem-parts/25036663.html

So I have to conclude that the new Delco TPS, part # 2134386 (19187340), superseded the 6663 part at that time. quickly sorting through google results for forum post, Ken's post below has pics of the bagged Delco 6663 sensor.

https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/nos-and-oem-parts.461568/
1578504758737.png

1578504785487.png


from the packaging, the part was bagged on or about the 253rd day of 2003. looks like the bag has been in use since 1995 per the design copyright. can't tell if the part is matte black plastic or the shiny black plastic like what's available today. the TPS units in boxes must be prior to 1995.

Nevertheless, what is the basis for the reasoning to seek out the older version, made in Canada, Delco TPS?

Somebody remembers, as many of you agreed in the older threads that the made in Canada TPS units were the ones to get.

So I ask, why?
 

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
Hey Matt, good one. all kidding aside, there was something about the new Delco version - more than just the aversion to putting Chinese parts on the car (regardless that Buick is the best selling GM unit in China).

it's just a variable resistor or rheostat or potentiometer - whatever you want to call it.

Remember V=IR? maybe the Delco version since 2007 used cheaper circuitry. someone else wrote about this topic years ago. can't find the discussion - maybe just a post buried in another thread topic.

just saw you new post. well, your new one, with new Delco part #'s, is quite different in appearance from the catalog pic I posted. when did you get that one? have to look up the packaging date format for what your part box says.


different suppliers over the years, possibly? I don't know. Could bug Richard about it - but it's not that pressing a topic. figured folks here would remember.
 
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grass doctor

Dream Catcher
right... mine also has a silver metal tang not the gold, and box says made in Mexico I dont know.. thought it might help in your research .. can't remember where I got that one
 

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
We know ACDelco does not manufacture anything directly - there are no ACDelco factories. Mfgr suppliers furnish parts to the OEMs. Supplier contracts expire, new contracts are bid, and new mfgr suppliers are chosen to furnish parts to the OEMs. Product physical appearance can change albeit the part still functions the same.

A manufacturer's private label packaging certainly makes matters confusing. One company actually makes the part. On the same assembly line that part can be packaged for numerous other companies in their respective packaging OR the parts can be shipped in bulk to said other company for packaging in their own materials by their employees. Here's a bunch of examples...

Delco part today (# 2134386 or 19187340), shiny black with K056 stamped, as pictured in post #1 via RockAuto e-catalog is actually BWD part # EC1098. Standard Motor Products Co. (SMP) owns the BWD brand.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...8-P?navigationPath=L1*14932|L2*14985|L3*15362
This same part is also private label packaged for NAPA under the Echlin product line, part # CRB 219058
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB...r+(TPS)&keywordInput=throttle+position+sensor

The Delco TPS that GrassDoc posted pics of (same Delco part # 2134386) is the Standard Motor Products part # TH49 private label packaged for ACDelco at some point in time. SMP also private label packages this part for NAPA under the Mileage Plus Fuel product line, part # MPF 319058
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MPF...r+(TPS)&keywordInput=throttle+position+sensor
https://www.standardbrand.com/en/ecatalog?part=TH49 - Throttle Position Sensor&type=p

What's the point to all of this?

-To recognize that the same part can be packaged/labeled by many different companies at quite different price points.

-To recognize that once GM discontinued part # 25036663 (Delco 213-918) in 2007, everything made since, even if in a ACDelco box is part of the aftermarket supply chain.

-AND that may just be the reasoning for the commentary I was asking about. The GM 25036663 and its Delco cross ref 213-918 are the OE part. That is why they command double, if not more, than the price of the aftermarket and aftermarket supplied Delco part # used today.

Someone correct me if I've missed something here with respect to why the GM/Delco TPS units made in Canada are the preferred units. Maybe those old threads from 10 to 12 years ago were written by other purists trying to keep aftermarket parts from their cars.

For reference, attached is a pic of the OE TPS unit as part of a take-off intake assembly.
 

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Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
literally just after I hit post reply, the forum went offline. thought I lost the above post. back on-line now about 15 minutes later. Phew. thinking I'm going to switch to drafting my work in word processing software then paste on to the forum
 

HotAirWH1

Active Member
What GM / AC Delco part numbers are for the 84/85 hot air cars since the lever rotates oppositely.
GM Part No.:
25036663 from GM Part Giant says it fits a 1985 Turbo Regal. Are they correct? Will this work on my Hot Air? Anyone know if the sensors from GM Part Giant are Canadian manufactured?

Where are Caspers TPS sensors manufactured?
 

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
@HotAirWH1, I have a similar write-up for the TPS units on the 84-85 cars. Let me check all the links first before I post it. I referenced good informative threads from the early 2000s in that write up - might have to massage stuff to get all the links and outside documents & catalogs to load properly.

In the meantime, the GM part # for 84-85 TPS is 25036658.

GM Parts Giant is incorrect. They, like many other dealerships that ventured into the on-line parts selling world, do not update their webpages. 25036663 has been discontinued since 2007. doubtful they have any but a phone call would confirm. Possible they are substituting the Delco # 213-4386.
 

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
FOR THE 84-85 HOT AIR CARS...
below is my resurrected white paper on the 84-85 TPS units...

the TPS unit is a completely different part compared to the TPS unit on the 86-87 turbo Buicks and 89 Turbo Trans Am. they are not interchangeable.

as delivered by GM, the original TPS unit, GM 25036658 (Delco 213-917) pictured below on a 1984 crate engine
P1020507.JPG
GM discontinued this part June 1, 2007. http://oemcats.com/oem-parts/25036658.html

Unless someone has an OE part squirreled away somewhere, a replacement today is coming from the aftermarket manufacturers/suppliers. Considering we are talking about total production figures of 9408 total turbo Buicks for these two years, it's a wonder that the aftermarket has even produced this part.

As such, the replacement TPS is significantly higher priced than the aftermarket replacements for the 86-87/89 TTA cars.

Today, two companies are manufacturing a replacement TPS unit. Standard Motor Products (SMP) and NTK.

SMP manufactures (or has made for them) part # TH174 under the Standard brand
AND part # EC3110 under the BWD (Borg Warner Division) brand. They are the same part. Manufacturer links below:

https://www.standardbrand.com/en/ecatalog?part=th174&type=p&search=s

https://www.bwdbrand.com/en/ecatalog?part=ec3110&type=p&search=s

NTK is the sensor division of NGK spark plugs. NTK part # is TH0050. A US distributor for NGK - Monarch Products, Inc - shows the part in link below.

https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=63485

While all three part #'s are available from a variety of sources, I must emphasize what @SCOOBY DOO noted earlier in the second post to this thread about Casper's. that part is most likely the SMP manufactured part, as either the Standard or BWD brand/packaging.

http://www.casperselectronics.com/c...roduct/product&path=7_53_54_11&product_id=912

ALL the other stores, both brick & mortar parts stores and web-only like RockAuto, offer these parts for more than DOUBLE or even TRIPLE Casper's. If you are keeping your 84-85 and planning on enjoying it for as long as you are able to drive and then hand it down to family members, it may well be a great idea to get a spare TPS.

Links to the retail seller stores below...

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bwd-throttle-position-sensor-ec3110/18481120-P?navigationPath=L1*14932|L2*14985|L3*15362


https://www.autozone.com/engine-management/throttle-position-sensor-tps/duralast-throttle-position-sensor-tps-tps152/223442_0_0

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB219308?partTypeName=Throttle+Position+Sensor+(TPS)&keywordInput=throttle+position+sensor

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/standard-ignition-5753/fuel---emissions-16775/fuel-injection-16471/throttle-position-sensor-12043/0164da5f35ef/standard-ignition-3-terminal-throttle-position-sensor/th174/5824312/1985/buick/regal?q=throttle+position+sensor&pos=0

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...uel+&+air,throttle+position+sensor+(tps),5136

Below is information I just confirmed today. You guys should buy me a pizza or two for this one! And some for @Jerryl as well.

back in 2005, @Jerryl replied to the thread below, noting in post # 12 that the company Tomco has TPS units - part # 14061. he posted a still valid link to a pdf for Tomco's TPS offerings https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/i-need-a-84-85-tps.169350/

I called Tomco Inc at 314.646.5300, press 2 for Tomco. Low and behold they have 20 some-odd TPS units for direct purchase at $42.85 each!!!!! The tech rep I spoke with noted these TPS units were made by a company that's been making them for 40-plus years. AND it's not NTK. So they are the the Standard Motor Parts TPS units. He noted they are a slow mover.

Tomco also has a TPS unit for the 86-87 cars, part # 14063, priced at $39.98 just like all the other stores selling these. It's probably SMP's TH49. So only you hot air owners really lucked out with my white paper find here.

I suggest you guys take advantage of my research before someone else does.
 

Boost231

What's An Intercooler
Staff member
I still have 2 or 3 brand new GM in the box 84.85 TPS if anyone needs

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

bison

Moderator
Staff member
We know ACDelco does not manufacture anything directly - there are no ACDelco factories. Mfgr suppliers furnish parts to the OEMs. Supplier contracts expire, new contracts are bid, and new mfgr suppliers are chosen to furnish parts to the OEMs. Product physical appearance can change albeit the part still functions the same.

A manufacturer's private label packaging certainly makes matters confusing. One company actually makes the part. On the same assembly line that part can be packaged for numerous other companies in their respective packaging OR the parts can be shipped in bulk to said other company for packaging in their own materials by their employees. Here's a bunch of examples...

Delco part today (# 2134386 or 19187340), shiny black with K056 stamped, as pictured in post #1 via RockAuto e-catalog is actually BWD part # EC1098. Standard Motor Products Co. (SMP) owns the BWD brand.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...8-P?navigationPath=L1*14932|L2*14985|L3*15362
This same part is also private label packaged for NAPA under the Echlin product line, part # CRB 219058
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB...r+(TPS)&keywordInput=throttle+position+sensor

The Delco TPS that GrassDoc posted pics of (same Delco part # 2134386) is the Standard Motor Products part # TH49 private label packaged for ACDelco at some point in time. SMP also private label packages this part for NAPA under the Mileage Plus Fuel product line, part # MPF 319058
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MPF...r+(TPS)&keywordInput=throttle+position+sensor
https://www.standardbrand.com/en/ecatalog?part=TH49 - Throttle Position Sensor&type=p

What's the point to all of this?

-To recognize that the same part can be packaged/labeled by many different companies at quite different price points.

-To recognize that once GM discontinued part # 25036663 (Delco 213-918) in 2007, everything made since, even if in a ACDelco box is part of the aftermarket supply chain.

-AND that may just be the reasoning for the commentary I was asking about. The GM 25036663 and its Delco cross ref 213-918 are the OE part. That is why they command double, if not more, than the price of the aftermarket and aftermarket supplied Delco part # used today.

Someone correct me if I've missed something here with respect to why the GM/Delco TPS units made in Canada are the preferred units. Maybe those old threads from 10 to 12 years ago were written by other purists trying to keep aftermarket parts from their cars.

For reference, attached is a pic of the OE TPS unit as part of a take-off intake assembly.

Double? A new Canada manufactured sensor is worth $150 without hesitation. I’ve never had one of them not work. These replacement ones availble now are problematic right out of the box. Not even close to the original spec. If GM put the shit that’s made today on cars back in the 1980’s off the assembly line the cars wouldn’t even make it off the lot and they’d be having issues with them. Aftermarket electronic replacement parts are a real nightmare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
Thanks Bison for burning the midnight oil, making time for this thread. I was hoping to catch the attention of someone like you, turboLou, good 'ole Uncle Nick, Steve V, etc without taking up time during the workday.

That clarification of first hand knowledge is the key to my initial inquiry. I know of and have seen the round file work done to reshape the oval slots attempting to achieve a correct setting. At one time, there was a replacement unit that only had round-ish holes. so more work was needed to attempt to make it function. when that effort failed, it was back to the parts store to exchange for another.

Many times folks only say to get such and such part from a named store or vendor. but the detail for that part is never shared, so who knows what brand/part# was previously purchased or if the same item can be bought today.

image below is Walker brand TPS for 86-87. notice the lever attaches to a plastic shaft. don't know that would work out well. 90 day warranty o_O
TPS - Walker Products 2001049_plastic shaft.png


That's the purpose of this thread - get good information into the heads of folks who choose to read it, so they can save themselves from frustrations by knowing what is available and what works.

I look forward to reading what @Lockman finds out from his call with Tomco and/or what parts he receives. There was a time that Tomco was packaging OE parts into their boxes.

@Boost231 thanks for making known you have OE GM TPS units for the hot air folks.
 
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HotAirWH1

Active Member
FOR THE 84-85 HOT AIR CARS...
below is my resurrected white paper on the 84-85 TPS units...

the TPS unit is a completely different part compared to the TPS unit on the 86-87 turbo Buicks and 89 Turbo Trans Am. they are not interchangeable.

as delivered by GM, the original TPS unit, GM 25036658 (Delco 213-917) pictured below on a 1984 crate engine
View attachment 349004
GM discontinued this part June 1, 2007. http://oemcats.com/oem-parts/25036658.html

Unless someone has an OE part squirreled away somewhere, a replacement today is coming from the aftermarket manufacturers/suppliers. Considering we are talking about total production figures of 9408 total turbo Buicks for these two years, it's a wonder that the aftermarket has even produced this part.

As such, the replacement TPS is significantly higher priced than the aftermarket replacements for the 86-87/89 TTA cars.

Today, two companies are manufacturing a replacement TPS unit. Standard Motor Products (SMP) and NTK.

SMP manufactures (or has made for them) part # TH174 under the Standard brand
AND part # EC3110 under the BWD (Borg Warner Division) brand. They are the same part. Manufacturer links below:

https://www.standardbrand.com/en/ecatalog?part=th174&type=p&search=s

https://www.bwdbrand.com/en/ecatalog?part=ec3110&type=p&search=s

NTK is the sensor division of NGK spark plugs. NTK part # is TH0050. A US distributor for NGK - Monarch Products, Inc - shows the part in link below.

https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=63485

While all three part #'s are available from a variety of sources, I must emphasize what @SCOOBY DOO noted earlier in the second post to this thread about Casper's. that part is most likely the SMP manufactured part, as either the Standard or BWD brand/packaging.

http://www.casperselectronics.com/c...roduct/product&path=7_53_54_11&product_id=912

ALL the other stores, both brick & mortar parts stores and web-only like RockAuto, offer these parts for more than DOUBLE or even TRIPLE Casper's. If you are keeping your 84-85 and planning on enjoying it for as long as you are able to drive and then hand it down to family members, it may well be a great idea to get a spare TPS.

Links to the retail seller stores below...

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bwd-throttle-position-sensor-ec3110/18481120-P?navigationPath=L1*14932|L2*14985|L3*15362


https://www.autozone.com/engine-management/throttle-position-sensor-tps/duralast-throttle-position-sensor-tps-tps152/223442_0_0

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/CRB219308?partTypeName=Throttle+Position+Sensor+(TPS)&keywordInput=throttle+position+sensor

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/standard-ignition-5753/fuel---emissions-16775/fuel-injection-16471/throttle-position-sensor-12043/0164da5f35ef/standard-ignition-3-terminal-throttle-position-sensor/th174/5824312/1985/buick/regal?q=throttle+position+sensor&pos=0

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...uel+&+air,throttle+position+sensor+(tps),5136

Below is information I just confirmed today. You guys should buy me a pizza or two for this one! And some for @Jerryl as well.

back in 2005, @Jerryl replied to the thread below, noting in post # 12 that the company Tomco has TPS units - part # 14061. he posted a still valid link to a pdf for Tomco's TPS offerings https://www.turbobuick.com/threads/i-need-a-84-85-tps.169350/

I called Tomco Inc at 314.646.5300, press 2 for Tomco. Low and behold they have 20 some-odd TPS units for direct purchase at $42.85 each!!!!! The tech rep I spoke with noted these TPS units were made by a company that's been making them for 40-plus years. AND it's not NTK. So they are the the Standard Motor Parts TPS units. He noted they are a slow mover.

Tomco also has a TPS unit for the 86-87 cars, part # 14063, priced at $39.98 just like all the other stores selling these. It's probably SMP's TH49. So only you hot air owners really lucked out with my white paper find here.

I suggest you guys take advantage of my research before someone else does.
Anthony P. - Thanks for the heads up and the research. Just ordered 2 from Tomco as backups. Claims they are a hot (air) item now. ;) Grass Doctor must have bought them all up!

What do you like on your Pizza !!!
 

Anthony P

sharing knowledge with those who care to listen
I'm hoping that you all with cars are able to capitalize on this. AND that it works out. Curiousity has me wondering what's in the Tomco box. I look forward to reading about what you receive. I've had some pleasant surprises with the parts I've discovered in Tomco boxes. I'll expand on this another time.

@HotAirWH1 any pizza is great, just no anchovies and no olives. maybe one day we'll meet up, share some slices over shop talk.
 
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