What would I be getting into?

[Dialtone76]

Hello All!

I wanted to say I really enjoy the site. Everyone seems VERY friendly, and there doesn't seem to be a shortage of people joining conversations, so I hope nobody minds if I just fire off some questions for some opinions.

I am not an owner yet, but I am exploring the possibility. Been a big fan of the cars since I was young, and now that I have found the fountain of, uhm, middle age, I have the resources for one. That being said, it is not my nature to do anything impulsive, and right now I am just monitoring the market so see whats out there and how often. I also want to make sure I am not blinded by the romantic vision I have from my youth and go into this well prepared for what lies ahead. I plan to spend the rest of the year, gathering intel before making any purchases, even if someone offers me 'cant say no deal'.

First a little about me, my profession is in IT, so I have a very analytical mind, and I can usually figure things out when they aren't working. I am no gear head. At one point I was mechanical. My first two cars (78 Ford LT and 83 Pontiac Grand Prix) were absolute POS's. Armed with a toolbox and a Chilton's manual I was able to keep my car running so I could get to work and keep the paychecks coming. (Amazing what you can do when you are desperate hehe). I have swapped plugs, wires, alternators, water pump, thermostats, engine fan, radiator, hoses and belts (not timing). I won't dare say I did them cleanly, efficiently, or that anyone would mistake my work for a professional's, but I was successful. That all works into part of the allure of the desire for a TR. I always wanted to work on a car when I didn't have to depend on it for transportation (or freeze my arse off in the winter). One of my biggest handicaps is going to be that i live in a Condo building. We have underground climate controlled parking/ vehicle storage, however I don't have a garage that I can just rent a hoist and goto town. If it has to be on a lift or the hood has to come off, I am not gonna be able to do it on location.

So now that you know a little about who you are working with, a little about my goals. I envision owning a TR that is presentable, that I don't have to apologize for. It would be stored in the winter, and driven in the summer (not rain). I wouldn't go looking for racing trouble, but if I did jump on the gas I would like to keep up the rep of the car rather than disgrace it. I also want it to be reliable. While I would love to re-live the thrill of fixing a component on the car, I do not miss the anxiety of never knowing if I was going to spend my day being broken down on the side of the road. I mean I get that the cars are over 25 years old and stuff just breaks sometimes, but if I am spending $5500 a month every season I drive it, I think I might look at a less painful, more cost efficient hobby, like…touring Antarctica and speaking Penguin. Heh.

There is a wealth of information here, and I enjoy reading the stories and seeing the pictures of the work you all have done to your cars. Some of it entices me, some of it scares me. I can see myself doing some of the very same things to improve/maintain the car, and it gives me confidence. While at the same time, some of it makes me want to curl up under my desk in the fetal position and scream for my Woobie.

Many of the questions I have I know are extremely subjective and maybe no two people will say the same thing, but I am hoping to get a feeler for what I might be getting myself into. I understand every TR is different, has its own history, but generally speaking:

Is a TR a car that CAN be reliable at this age in the role I describe above? I mean how much work (other than the PM list every year) do you guys spend on repairs vs self inflicted upgrades? Other than with new performance upgrades, how frequently to the unexpected problems occur? Every year? every 10000 miles?

I don't anticipate the constant crave for lower and lowers quarter times, so I envision finding a TR, getting it tuned, some bolt-ons, and being content. Tuned in spring, out for the summer cruises and special occasions, and then hibernating the winter. If the configuration stays static, do I stand a better chance of the car being reliable or is it always a seasonal game of roulette on whats gonna break next?

If I don't have a location that would enable me to fully pull the engine apart, would you ever recommend a TR?

Sorry for the long winded post, but I just wanna get a sense for what I would be getting myself into if I give in to the childhood sweetheart. Hopefully you all won't mind the random conversation hehe.

Thanks in advance for your responses!

 

[Pronto]

Find a nice stock lower mileage one. A few items are the usual suspects for needing help ie; fuel system, dried cracked vacuum lines, stock chip, maf, radiator to name a few. If you aren't interested in racing then a good going over all the systems and replacing items that are warn, dried out from heat or not functioning correctly can reward you with a fun fast for the street car. There are some good buys out there. I'ld stay away from a modded car for now. You really need to have patients with these suckers and if it's a problem child you can literally go crazy finding the solutions to it's issues.

 

[usetaboost]

I'd buy a clean ls1 car but that's just me. Anymore I'd rather drive the wheels off of a car with not a care in the world than wonder what part is ready to crap out next or the illeagal immigrant driving on the road with no license or insurance.

 

[HouTX87]

I agree. Find a nice low mile car that's nearly stock. Even being all stock there will be work that needs to be done and some mandatory upgrades. It took me nearly 6 months to get all the bugs out of my car when it was stock before I turned up the boost. There were still more bugs to come but the intervals are getting longer in between. It definitely takes a lot of patience but then again I wasn't able to leave my car stock either like I'd originally planned. It's difficult... trust me.

 

[cetme1]

Now is great time to buy. Don't be like me. I waited and waited to buy an old Pontiac Trans Am like I used to own and now the price on them is sky high! I'm still looking but it might be a while to find an affordable one. Turbo Buicks are just going to keep increasing in price as well. Get one while you can. Good luck.

 

[klmnla]

Find one thats rust free and mostly stock. I have printed out procedures from this site which guided me through AC coversion, cam replacement, timing gear replacements, scan master settings, converting to vacuum brakes, etc etc etc. Its all here. You will have a hobby that will take all the time and money you care to put into it. When running good, these cars are fun and do great at local car shows. Replacing seat covers, carpet and cleaning up the interior is a heck of alot easier than dealing with rust on the body, so dont worrry to much about the interior. Look close at the underside, floor pans, and under the seals if it has t-tops.

 

[GullsGN]

Now is great time to buy. Don't be like me. I waited and waited to buy an old Pontiac Trans Am like I used to own and now the price on them is sky high! I'm still looking but it might be a while to find an affordable one. Turbo Buicks are just going to keep increasing in price as well. Get one while you can. Good luck.

If you don't best the crap out of it like a 16 year old, AND if you don't buy one that has had the crap beat out of it, these can be a very reliable car. I have had mine since new and it has never left me on the side of the road. 26 years and 145k of basically trouble free miles. I would not hesitate to own one of these if my only restrictions were that I could not remove the hood or have a lift in my garage. I have never removed the hood or worked on my car on a lift. Now, if you wanted to race and flogg the car that would be a different story.

 

[Dialtone76]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. I am VERY happy nobody came off the line with 'Make sure you have a war chest of 50k to get it reliable and carry a vespa scooter in the trunk at all times!'

I like the idea of finding a low mileage well cared for car, and I can do the basic stuff to make reliable. I think that if I could do it myself it would warm me back up to being mechanical again, without getting in over my head, or even have the car serviced without being on the hook for 'FULL Engine Rebuild/restore.

I don't want to change the tone of the thread to a buying guide (I have read the one at GNTTYPE and the notes for it here), I will ask more of those types of questions when I am ready to pull the trigger. But one of the things I have difficulty understanding is where I can draw a line between beat on, and well cared for. I mean sure, my first pick would of course be low mile, garage kept, original condition. However I have been watching the market a few months and MANY of the cars for sale have some degree of modding or 90k or higher on the odo.

Obviously, I will only choose the car that is right for me, and it will be one I don't feel like I compromised on much to get. I hope to find one with like 30k that someone sells to me for a V8 Regal price *dreaming*. But I look cars with 90k. Okay that is High mileage, and asking for problems and goes against my stated goals. But spanned over 26 years is only 4k miles a year. That suggests someone that ‘took care’ of the car. Conversely I see cars that say 46k original miles, yet have full engine or tranny rebuilds as part of the sales pitch. That says to me that you must have BEAT the car into submission to need a rebuild that early in the cars life. I honestly don’t know any of the members here (yet hehe), I imagine, that if i did get to know many of you, that you might sell me one of your cars as ‘tastefully’ upgraded yet well cared for

That is pretty much my first conundrum on this journey. Understanding the different type of work done on the car that ‘could’ be done in the interests of reliability, that wouldn’t suggest ‘beat on’. As an example, if I remember the car’s history right (and keep in mind i am not a gear head) that shortly into these cars lives, oil would leak from the real main seal. I forget the fix, I have in my head that you had to dismount part of the engine to fix (or maybe it was drop the tranny, memory fading with age LOL). I also have in my head that at the time it was thought if you had to do one, there was ‘other’ work that should be done at the same time. Maybe it was you should pay to do the front and the crankcase too, but it might have be something else. *shrug*

But if that is indeed true, that would be something I don’t think I could do in my environment. So as I evaluate this venture, I should make sure that work is already done or that I am prepared to pay to have it done, should I score a low mileage TR. Unless of course I have a layer of Bounty (The Quickker Pickker Upper) and Diamond dry covering it’s parking spot

It is also interesting to hear klmnla’s comment about rust. Is it safe to say that Rust will be my #1 ‘STAY AWAY FROM IT’ indicator? I read the How to for the T-Top replacement (see afore mentioned Woobie comment). BUT at the same time, it suggests to me that ‘perhaps’ if I did find a low mileage TR, and it exhibited that condition, that for 2k or so (gotta check that price) it could be a reasonable repair. Heck, with a fix already published, and if I was a shrewd negotiator I might be able to haggle the price down because of that. (Not really, I am an awful negotiator hehe). But should I take the attitude, that if there is rust in the T-Tops, it wasn’t cared for? What other types of things like that should I consider ‘deal breakers’? Pronto gives some things that for sure will need work out of the gate, but what are some of the ‘MAJOR’ items that ALL TR owners eventually have to deal with (no matter how hard they pray to the Blessed Lady of Acceleration) just to keep on rolling? Things like.... Do most turbos need to be replaced at 50-60k? If the brakes haven’t failed by 75k, don't drive the car on days of the week ending in Y. Things like that.

Thanks again everyone!!

 

[earlbrown]

The war chest doesn't have to be that big. The Vespa in the trunk is a good idea though

 

[HouTX87]

lol I'd say 10k in the war chest. I've been lucky enough to always make it home but a Vespa isn't a bad idea! Even Houston to Bowling Green and back last year. I'd also avoid the T-top cars unless that's what you realllly want. Another thing, the option tag is on the bottom side of the trunk lid. Familiarize yourself with some of the option codes. WE2 is a GN, G80 is factory posi (not all gn's had it), LC2 is the 86-87 turbo v6.

 

[GNcollectables]

I find it funny that others will tell future TR owners to buy something close to stock.
Makes sense, sort of, but...
Then within a year, (most of) the new owners are modding it, ruining the value of "stock" and also end up spending more $ than they would had they just bought a modded car to begin with!
Yes, I get the (TR) learning curve with these cars, etc., but still. Teach 'em how to drive it easy WITH the mods, then work up from there. (yes, i know, temptation...).
Turn the boost way down, learn & drive the car for a long time (you know, NOT with the go pedal fully on the mat), then proceed... slowly...

I never worry about mileage anymore.
I'd rather buy a 150,000 mile car (in good condition) that A LOT of stuff has already been replaced on, than a 10,000 mile car with lots of original parts (that will end up needing to be replaced sometime in the future anyways!)

To the OP: talk to people with varying levels of cars, ride in them if possible (or drive them ) , read the for sale sections on the different parts cars have, REALLY figure out what you want, and what you WILL want a year from now (meaning a year AFTER you have bought the car... more go fast parts, other goodies, etc.), then try to decide BEFORE you buy. Sure, its not easy, you SAY (now) you'll be satisfied with mostly stock, but I think 99% of TR owners don't stay that way, these cars ARE like crack... you just can't get enough once you get the taste! (or when you get blown away in your stock GN by the neighborhood punk in his mustang! )

MAFs go bad, fuel pumps wear out, original timing chains break, cam & crank sensors /coil pack/ignition module issues, read the general tech & engine sections & see all the problems guys are dealing with! Don't feel left out, you'll have your share of problems eventually...

JMHO

 

[Phoneguy]

Fill out your profile so that we know where you are located. There are a ton of people willing to help you find the right car for you. Take your time, you will find what you are looking for. List your budget for a car purchase and be reasonable with your expectations. Dont spend every dime you have on the car...you will need money for upgrades to fuel system, chip, scanmaster, etc.
Going fast costs a LOT of money !!!
My car has 43,xxx miles on it, the original numbers matching engine and trans were removed and stored in my garage. I am now going on my third engine rebuild and I am on my third tranny...
You scared yet ?????? LOL

Just be patient and ask for help when you need it. Good luck.

Bryan

 

[6gunn]

Welcome to the site! I'm new to everything as well, so I'll offer my opinion based on what I do know. Firstly, do not depend on a 25+ year old vehicle as your only mode of transportation. Have a backup...even if it's a vespa. I think of it like this... "Having an extra vehicle at home is just as smart as carrying a spare tire in the trunk". Next, learn about the safety precautions you'll have to take with your car. That is a pretty big issue unfortunately, but where there is a will, there is a way. Good luck!

 

[1fastcobra]

2 words.

DEEP POCKETS

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[rmar]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/86-gn-26k-miles-in-illinois-22-500.370343/

 

[Nick Micale]

Hello All!.......... While I would love to re-live the thrill of fixing a component on the car, I do not miss the anxiety of never knowing if I was going to spend my day being broken down on the side of the road. I mean I get that the cars are over 25 years old and stuff just breaks sometimes, but if I am spending $5500 a month every season I drive it, I think I might look at a less painful, more cost efficient hobby, like…touring Antarctica and speaking Penguin. Heh.
...................................................................................Thanks in advance for your responses!

Since most everyone has given you positive comments, I will point out some downsides you should also consider as I have seen many short-time owners that are car nuts, but find ownership of a GN more of a drag than fun, and the car then has new owner

As you pointed out, these cars are over 25 years old and new "issues" are still creeping into the reliability of these vehicles. Many critical parts can be hard to find, but someone with enough knowledge and ability to help you is even more scarce, and unavailable in some areas?

If you are unfortunate enough to bring it to a shop that "thinks" they could help you, you may end up being worse off than you started?

After over 25 years of owning and dealing with these turbo Buicks, they still kick my ass with new and different issues that can take hours , or even days, to resolve.

The one thing a GN does give you is the "mystic" and reputation that you will will find in very few other cars.

 

[GetOwnedVette]

Now is definitely the time to buy, I can tell you that much. Lowest price I have seen these cars since I have been into them for 8 years.

 

[turbodave231]

These cars started out as drivers and for most people they still are drivers. They are impressive in stock condition and it is easy to go crazy and modify the cars for big performance gains. But they still can knock down 20-21 mpg and idle like a stock car.

All the suggestions about a mostly stock, low mile car are very good suggestions for your situation. I would stay away from T-top cars and look suspiciously at Astro-roof cars because they leak water and rust out the floor pans. Almost every part for these cars is still available or will be reproduced. The engine management technology is well understood and still being pushed and developed 25 years after the cars were built.

You don't need to hit the lotto to own one, but they ain't cheap either!! Hope you find a nice one.....post up some pictures when you do!

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

I would like to put my 2 cents if that matters , you need to have some automotive repair skills if you want one of these cars or a pocket full of money for sure , these cars are not for everyone , My brother non automotive wanting a GN and I hunted and found him one low miles unmolested and started from there , he did some mild changes like fp, down pipe , cold air pipe , and bigger injectors and TT chip and he as been real happy so far with no problems of getting in the car and going where he wants to go , now me being a mechanic all my life I wanted a TB so I went to looking and I wanted a more modified version that someone has already put all there hard earned money in so I would I would be ahead of the game , so that's what I did as you look at my sig , but guess what I have been working on this car for a total of 6 months and racking many peoples brain as to why this car will not run past 5000 rpms . Like I say I have had my hands full off and on 6 months and not being able to drive it any from it not running up to what a TB is supposed to do . I have spent a lot of money and time and about changed everything that I can bolt on to car to find out why it still will not run and now I am finally seeing the light at end of the tunnel some after all this time . I believe if I had went my Brothers route I would have been better off but I have learned a hell of a lot about these cars in a short time the route I went from all the help these Turbo Buick people give me from this board , it has been priceless . What I am trying to tell you its a gamble when buying one of these 25+ year old cars cause you never know what lays in store for you , it can be a very bumpy ride or a nice ride . Good luck with your decision .

 

[john keskes]

You have to think of it as a Labor of love. You're willing to give up $$ and time to keep a TR on the road But the good thing is that you love doing it. You've mentioned the anxiety factor when you're driving a 25+ yr old car so you know to Expect the unexpected. I am no Mechanic myself, I've never pulled a head off an automotive engine in my life. I bought a TR because I always wanted one. My Monte held me at bay for over 25yrs when i had the urges to get a TR then one day this past December presented me the opportunity to have a TR. I knew inside that it was the right thing to do, I could not pass the deal up & i never came close to talking myself out of it. I'm no rich guy and I know that i would end up spending money on it but I love this car. It will come down to finding a solid car. I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.