Venting Frustation!...take a look

[fast400]

Just have to vent for a moment! I've been working on doing a 'simple' rebuild for over 3 months now, not because I'm slow, but it appears any defective parts available get sent to me. First I noticed the cam bearing surface 'Durabond" was delaminating on one of the cam bearings...no problem, simply replace....wait 2 weeks for new bearings. Next I measure the brand new K1 rods prior to install and notice 0.002" variance in large end.....wait another month, get new rods, which are of course slightly heavier....sooo back to the machine shop to have the new rod weights matched to the already balanced rotating assembly....another week goes by. Today I start assembling the mains, pull the King Bearing out of their package, only to notice a defective main bearing.....ARGHHHH!!!!! What happened to quality control?? Are we that miserable?? No wonder people buy German engineering...at least it's accurate.
Check out the pics!
If you ever have a problem with King Bearings....don't bother calling them, their customer service sucks. They weren't even concerned. They simply told me to contact the vendor I purchased them through.

 

[turbodave231]

I feel your pain. As the manufacturing base in the US erodes away, we can only expect more of the poor quality that you have run into.

 

[T- Type Tim]

piss poor

 

[SHADOWII]

Is that what I have to look forward to?!
Quick! china needs more of our stimulus money!

 

[toomanymodz]

I actually stopped buying things for about six months due to poor quality merchandise and/or service. So frustrating at times. I spent $1k to get a McIntosh music server repaired and it was still malfunctioning. It was shipped back and forth a total of four times before they got it right. It took almost 9 months total. I hate returning things, so I still have a few things that aren't right but I never sent 'em back. I had one of my Rolex watches sent in for cleaning and they screwed it up. Sent it back and it still isn't right. It now just sits on the watch winder because it has no reserve (supposed to have over 2 days of reserve when the watch isn't moved). Plus the date advances at 11:45pm instead of midnight. I swear, quality is gone!

Oh and restaurants too! Applebees..junk. Ruby Tuesdays...junk. Chili's...junk. Red Lobster...junk! I can cook a better meal here at home, so I hardly eat out anymore.

 

[SHADOWII]

I actually stopped buying things for about six months due to poor quality merchandise and/or service. So frustrating at times. I spent $1k to get a McIntosh music server repaired and it was still malfunctioning. It was shipped back and forth a total of four times before they got it right. It took almost 9 months total. I hate returning things, so I still have a few things that aren't right but I never sent 'em back. I had one of my Rolex watches sent in for cleaning and they screwed it up. Sent it back and it still isn't right. It now just sits on the watch winder because it has no reserve (supposed to have over 2 days of reserve when the watch isn't moved). Plus the date advances at 11:45pm instead of midnight. I swear, quality is gone!

Oh and restaurants too! Applebees..junk. Ruby Tuesdays...junk. Chili's...junk. Red Lobster...junk! I can cook a better meal here at home, so I hardly eat out anymore.

Likewise!

 

[Jerryl]

Well . . . . I had posted the thread below and some thoght I was crazy . . . . hate to say this, but I lowered my expectations . . . . meaning . . . I expect to be the QC inspector, the R&D department, and the CS department.

Having spend all my career in R&D, MFG, Sourcing and Operations Managment, I have a real appreciation for the cradle to grave process. http://turbobuick.com/forums/thread...fitment-quality-problems.361144/#post-2879868.

Example of my frustration;
I had a LOT of problems with 3 pairs of brand new "Made in the USA" oil pump gears for the Buick, and send e-mails to the quality manager after speaking with him.
Thought he would love to get some feedback from the field, aka "real world" . . . . . . I would have been embarrassed to send crap like that into the field.

I told him that no personal compensation or favors of any kind was expected . . . . nada, zilch, zero! Never got a reply. All I wanted is for them to FIX the damn problem so others did not have to deal with it. . . . . .I did not want to contact the operations manager . . . If he was working for me, he'd have some explaining to do . . . . . Ended up taking me 3 weeks to get S*** to fit the best way possible.

Ok, I am off my soap box . . . . with my lowered expectations

 

[S10xGN]

I feel your pain. As the manufacturing base in the US erodes away, we can only expect more of the poor quality that you have run into.

Yes, "stuff" is made overseas, but the problem continues when it arrives here and is sent out to customers "as-is". Unfortunately, we've spent too much time training our younger generations that it's "OK to make mistakes" and "it's not your fault". Anybody that gave a sh!t would immediately send the defective "stuff" straight back where it came from. Bottom line is there is no longer any personal sense of responsibility or self-pride. This has and will continue to have horrific ramifications in the long run.

 

[novaderrik]

Yes, "stuff" is made overseas, but the problem continues when it arrives here and is sent out to customers "as-is". Unfortunately, we've spent too much time training our younger generations that it's "OK to make mistakes" and "it's not your fault". Anybody that gave a sh!t would immediately send the defective "stuff" straight back where it came from. Bottom line is there is no longer any personal sense of responsibility or self-pride. This has and will continue to have horrific ramifications in the long run.

it's hard to send the stuff back to where it's made and get things fixed quickly when there are production lead times of months to a year on some things.. the owners of the companies in China know this and use it to their advantage- they'll do a really good job on the first couple of batches, then quality can start to drop off.. it's not a big deal to them if the customer gets mad and starts threatening to get someone else to do it, since they already made a nice profit and have other places waiting in line to get them to make stuff for them.

this was all explained to my by a former boss who's dad got into the import/export business with Chinese companies after he sold off the company that he built from the ground up. he said that you can get good quality stuff from them on a consistent basis if you ride their ass from day one and pop in at random times to do on the spot QC checks- which is something most US companies won't want to do what with China being on the other side of the planet and all..

 

[SHADOWII]

in my opinion, stuff shouldn't be sent back if an overseas co.'s products are not w/in claimed spec's. It should be canned due to the cost of sending the items back. and a refund issued to the customer and a credit issued to the american business that is selling the items. There is no reason for a customer or a business to absorbe the cost of bad products. The gov. needs to get behind our businesses and support them w/laws and tariffs to keep china and others in line. We are still the "big" market in the world.

 

[toomanymodz]

Yes, "stuff" is made overseas, but the problem continues when it arrives here and is sent out to customers "as-is". Unfortunately, we've spent too much time training our younger generations that it's "OK to make mistakes" and "it's not your fault". Anybody that gave a sh!t would immediately send the defective "stuff" straight back where it came from. Bottom line is there is no longer any personal sense of responsibility or self-pride. This has and will continue to have horrific ramifications in the long run.

Slightly off-topic but I recently was given a tour of a child day-care facility. The lady went on to explain that the staff, under no circumstances, are allowed to say the word "No" to any child. Hmmm.

 

[standupjskiguy]

Food for thought.Just to play devil's advocate.
Yes all parts should be perfect but in reality,there are bound to be flaws in everything.
The main bearing's defect is in an area that is not a heavy load bearing area.
So isn't that really a meaningless flaw?
On the cam bearing, all the load is placed on one side of the bearing so if the defective side were installed up wouldn't that then be also
a meaningless flaw? Also cam bearings don't have the same amount of pressure exerted on them as main or rod bearings so
even if this flaw were installed on the load side, would it really be a cause for a failure?
On the big end of the rods, you don't specify if the variance was parallel to the split or perpendicular. If it was parallel, would it really make a difference
since again, the side bears little load? An excess of .002 would have little effect on oil pressure and when you get to higher RPM, you want more clearance
instead of less due to the distortion of the crank journal at higher RPM.
So maybe to keep costs down, manufacturers allow some cosmetic flaws in internal components.

 

[toomanymodz]

Ok, so you go to your local dealer to buy a new car. You find various scratches, dents and cracks. All aren't visible if you're just standing there looking at the car, but the defects are in places like the door jambs etc. Would you still buy that car? Most folks would probably not. When purchasing new parts, a certain degree of quality is expected. They might not be 'fatal' flaws, but they are clearly flaws nonetheless.

 

[standupjskiguy]

In a perfect world, new things should be perfect I agree.
In your example though, every new car I have ever bought, which haven't been that many, has had flaws.
Wife's 73 Camaro came with a blotch on the hood, when the dealer tried to fix it they ran the car into the tool bench.
So much for keeping the factory finish. That flaw didn't show up right away, it was like somebody sneezed and got it on the hood.
So the paint started lifting off in the weather.
My 77 Buick had such little chrome on the wheels, they'd rust if you didn't dry them when they got wet so I had to clear coat them.
Also the paint in the blacked out area would flake off of the chrome underneath. It also pulled to the right.
They gave it an alignment and repainted the wheels. But they would not give me new wheels.
The wifes85 had a leak from a fitting on the radiator and has small imperfections in the sheet metal.
My 87 has little dents in the doors and lets not talk about the paint on these cars! And my power antenna didn't work so when the dealer
replaced it, they went to close the hood but it didn't close all the way so they pressed down on it and pushed in the hood. They also cleaned
the car with dirty rags after under coating it so it had micro scratches, swill marks etc.
I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying doo doo occurs.
It gets very tiring fighting all these battles. One has to choose which ones are really important.

 

[fast400]

Food for thought.Just to play devil's advocate.
Yes all parts should be perfect but in reality,there are bound to be flaws in everything.
The main bearing's defect is in an area that is not a heavy load bearing area.
So isn't that really a meaningless flaw?
On the cam bearing, all the load is placed on one side of the bearing so if the defective side were installed up wouldn't that then be also
a meaningless flaw? Also cam bearings don't have the same amount of pressure exerted on them as main or rod bearings so
even if this flaw were installed on the load side, would it really be a cause for a failure?
On the big end of the rods, you don't specify if the variance was parallel to the split or perpendicular. If it was parallel, would it really make a difference
since again, the side bears little load? An excess of .002 would have little effect on oil pressure and when you get to higher RPM, you want more clearance
instead of less due to the distortion of the crank journal at higher RPM.
So maybe to keep costs down, manufacturers allow some cosmetic flaws in internal components.

Hey,
If you want to put the bearings and rods in your rebuild, I'll gladly send them to you! These are critical flaws. If the corner is delaminated new, just think of what the 'non-load' area will do once spinning. And .002" variance on the big end to waaaayyy too much regardless where I measure (measured with bearing not in rod!).

 

[toomanymodz]

...It gets very tiring fighting all these battles. One has to choose which ones are really important.

It is tiring. I bought a brand new 2011 Jeep Patriot and it has a factory repaint spot (about 6 inches in diameter) on the hood that wasn't visible in sunlight but was sure visible in my garage. I never bothered to say anything. I'm too tired to battle.

 

[Jerryl]

Food for thought.Just to play devil's advocate.
Yes all parts should be perfect but in reality,there are bound to be flaws in everything.
The main bearing's defect is in an area that is not a heavy load bearing area.
So isn't that really a meaningless flaw? . . . . . .

Since we are playing D.A ;
Don’t confuse perfection with quality.

If a part meets its specifications such as "Visually, chemically and dimensionally", it is a “Quality part” even if it's not perfect or flawless.
If it is a quality part but won't perform, it is still a dud . . . or junk to me
Perfect can’t usually be measured either.

What "I" was refering to is a part that is brand new and does not work, . . . . "junk".
Nothing is perfect, and very few "need" and are "willing and able" to spend the money on “close to perfect”.

.

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

.002 in the big end? Why didn't you get them re sized. They just take a little material off then re hone. A good machine shop should have no problem doing this procedure.

 

[fast400]

.002 in the big end? Why didn't you get them re sized. They just take a little material off then re hone. A good machine shop should have no problem doing this procedure.

Cause they were brand new...why pay a machine shop for what should meet specs out of the box?

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

I'm just saying instead of boxing them up and re-sending them back and waiting for the replacements it don't take much to re-size them to spec. and then balance and assemble.