Motors for Sale complete S2 offcenter & 109 stroker

Trader history for turbobuick (0)

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I have two motors and only need one to run this season and would like to sell the other. I have another 4.1 offcenter with new TA heads I am planning another build for next year so the motor I keep to run may also be for sale next spring. Both of these motors are assembled and complete and both have been freshened and are NEW from the machine shop with rings, bearings gaskets etc.

I can post more details and pics but for now here are the basics, contact me directly if you are a serious buyer. I typically like to BS about Buicks but would rather speak to someone who is ready and willing to purchase. I am located in Youngstown Ohio and I am willing to ship but it will be on my time and schedule and your dime to get it crated and shipped.

Stage 2 offcenter
3.8 block-MINT no issues no repairs no sleeves no BS 3.820 bore. Wiesco pistons CR ~9.0:1 Billet Oliver 6.5" rods, BMS 3.4" std/std stroke crank, GN1 heads fully ported 14 bolt with scorpion rockers, No cracks no repairs no issues and they have been run in the 9's with no problems. Ported intake that is matched to the heads included. $10900.

I have all the parts to make this a complete drop in motor. Front cover oil pump assembly with RJC pan and TA pickup for stock style wet sump oiling. I also have a complete cam stack up timing chain and lifters, ATI balancer and JW flexplate and hardware. I can include all this but I am only selling for full price of what I paid since they are all new I will need these parts for the 4.1 motor I am building and would prefer to keep them.

109 Girdled Stroker motor:
109 block Girdled 3.040 bore, Diamond pistons 9.5:1 CR with total seal steel top rings that I waited 4 months to get! K1 rods ARP 2000 bolts, 3.625 stroke crank std/std. Balancer and flexplate are factory Buick pieces that have been machined and neutrally balanced. Heads are 8445 Irons but not your typical ported iron heads and have an extensive amount of work done to them. These are actually one of the nicest pair of iron heads in existence and a little bit of Buick history too, I have owned them on/off a few times over the last 20+ years and at one point had them on a flow bench. While I don't have the original flow numbers from back then I do remember they flowed the same as a ported M&A head at the time. In addition to being extensively ported They have offset valves and run 1.90 int/1.60exh valves with 1.50 diameter springs and come with a custom T&D shaft mount rocker setup. The heads were originally Terry Ryan's who raced TSE back the early 90s against Red A, these heads were purpose built for that class back then when there were no aftermarket heads available.

Fully machined freshened and assembled short block with oil pan, balancer, flexplate along with heads, rockers and fully ported intake $7900.

I have a brand new TA front cover/oil pump assembly, billet roller cam with Weber stack up and Rollmaster timing chain, roller lifters Comp that are not included in that price. I have three motors and only two complete cam setups front covers and oil pumps and will need one for whatever motor I end up running this year and one for the 4.1 I am building. Whichever motor I sell I can include these parts at cost or you can purchase them on your own as most of them are readily available. I do have one extra billet roller cam I can include if the profile fits your needs but you will still need the stack up and timing chain.

I have owned the 109 motor for awhile and built it originally in 2009 or 10. This motor was in my T-type and running up till last Sept when I pulled it to freshen and fix an oil leak and a few other small issues. There was an issue with the block deck surface and I ended up having to tear the entire motor down to re-deck the block. In the meantime I had already bought the 3.8 S2 and decided to build that motor instead but then decided to put the 109 motor back together so I could run THS this year at the Nats. Now we have Covid-19 and no Nats!! So by the end of this weekend I will have all the parts to complete both motors and since we are in lock down I will probably finish putting them both together this weekend.
 

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seedling

Well-Known Member
First of all what a freaking buy!! Wow! If I knew what the future held (when they’re going to let us be free again), then I’d be all over this deal for sure. I mean just under $11K to go 9’s? Oh yeah, that’s what I’m talking about!

And man I’m not doubting you at all, as I know you know what you’re talking about here. However, I’ve never heard of 3.8 stage 2 so would you mind elaborating / educating me on this one?? GLWS!!!

Helluva a buy here folks! Helluva buy!!
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
First of all what a freaking buy!! Wow! If I knew what the future held (when they’re going to let us be free again), then I’d be all over this deal for sure. I mean just under $11K to go 9’s? Oh yeah, that’s what I’m talking about!

And man I’m not doubting you at all, as I know you know what you’re talking about here. However, I’ve never heard of 3.8 stage 2 so would you mind elaborating / educating me on this one?? GLWS!!!

Helluva a buy here folks! Helluva buy!!
Thanks

The car will only goes as fast as the turbo and rest of the combo will let it but both of these motors are certainly a strong foundation!

On vs Off center
Stage 1 vs Stage 2

Lots of confusion here with a lot of this so I am going make a post about the differences.

First off any Stage block was a Buick Motorsports block built for racing and the afternarket they were not put in any production vehicles and there are MANY variations of these blocks which makes it really confusing to follow.

Stage 1 vs Stage 2

Stage 1 and Stage 2 blocks are the SAME blocks just machined differently with different main caps. Stage 1 blocks came with 2 both mains 8 head bolts and oil pump pick up in the stock location. There are said to suffer from core shift more commonly than S2 blocks and the theory is that these blocks were rejected S2 castings sold as aftermarket replacements. S1 blocks can be machined for S2 four bolt main caps and easily drilled for 14 head bolts. I've owned a few S1 over the years and some of them can be nice blocks but I have also heard of people having a lot of issues with them.

The S2 off center blocks come with 4 bolt main caps and 14 bolt heads and the oil pump pick up is in the front of the block and not in the middle like a stock motor due to the four bolt main caps.

BMS made both a 3.8 and a 4.1 S1 and S2 blocks in off-center. These blocks are very desirable for turbo buick owners because they literally drop in with everything bolting up with minimal fabrication. They are also very hard to find in decent shape. A lot of them have been run really hard, damaged then repaired and some are just plain used up. They produced on center blocks in much greater quantity up through the late 90's while the off centers were last produced in the 80's. I only bought the 4.1 off center last year because in 30+ years of racing these cars I never owned a nice one and the one I bought is mint.

Off vs On Center.
The V6 in a turbobuick has one bank of cylinder off set 1/8 of an inch making it "off center" of the crank pin. The connecting rod is also offset to compensate for this to one side. To make an on-center block work you need an on center intake since one side of the offcenter is offset and you have to mill the front covers or shim the crank pulley to make them fit with the factory accessories and align correctly.

On-Center: At some point in the mid 80's Buick Motorsport decided to center the one bank of cylinders making an "on-center" block since they were being used heavily in racing. I believe it is the passenger side that is offset on an off center. I dont believe there was ever a 3.8 bore on-center block and all on center blocks were Stage 2. That's not to say there isnt one out there somewhere as a freak Buick experiment.
 

seedling

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the killer explanation man! Much appreciated! I guess you learn something new everyday with these cars!
 

V6sleeper

Well-Known Member
Thanks

The car will only goes as fast as the turbo and rest of the combo will let it but both of these motors are certainly a strong foundation!

On vs Off center
Stage 1 vs Stage 2

Lots of confusion here with a lot of this so I am going make a post about the differences.

First off any Stage block was a Buick Motorsports block built for racing and the afternarket they were not put in any production vehicles and there are MANY variations of these blocks which makes it really confusing to follow.

Stage 1 vs Stage 2

Stage 1 and Stage 2 blocks are the SAME blocks just machined differently with different main caps. Stage 1 blocks came with 2 both mains 8 head bolts and oil pump pick up in the stock location. There are said to suffer from core shift more commonly than S2 blocks and the theory is that these blocks were rejected S2 castings sold as aftermarket replacements. S1 blocks can be machined for S2 four bolt main caps and easily drilled for 14 head bolts. I've owned a few S1 over the years and some of them can be nice blocks but I have also heard of people having a lot of issues with them.

The S2 off center blocks come with 4 bolt main caps and 14 bolt heads and the oil pump pick up is in the front of the block and not in the middle like a stock motor due to the four bolt main caps.

BMS made both a 3.8 and a 4.1 S1 and S2 blocks in off-center. These blocks are very desirable for turbo buick owners because they literally drop in with everything bolting up with minimal fabrication. They are also very hard to find in decent shape. A lot of them have been run really hard, damaged then repaired and some are just plain used up. They produced on center blocks in much greater quantity up through the late 90's while the off centers were last produced in the 80's. I only bought the 4.1 off center last year because in 30+ years of racing these cars I never owned a nice one and the one I bought is mint.

Off vs On Center.
The V6 in a turbobuick has one bank of cylinder off set 1/8 of an inch making it "off center" of the crank pin. The connecting rod is also offset to compensate for this to one side. To make an on-center block work you need an on center intake since one side of the offcenter is offset and you have to mill the front covers or shim the crank pulley to make them fit with the factory accessories and align correctly.

On-Center: At some point in the mid 80's Buick Motorsport decided to center the one bank of cylinders making an "on-center" block since they were being used heavily in racing. I believe it is the passenger side that is offset on an off center. I dont believe there was ever a 3.8 bore on-center block and all on center blocks were Stage 2. That's not to say there isnt one out there somewhere as a freak Buick experiment.
Thats a great post, should be a sticky someplace.
 

750H.P.V6

Brutal 6 Racing
Thanks

The car will only goes as fast as the turbo and rest of the combo will let it but both of these motors are certainly a strong foundation!

On vs Off center
Stage 1 vs Stage 2

Lots of confusion here with a lot of this so I am going make a post about the differences.

First off any Stage block was a Buick Motorsports block built for racing and the afternarket they were not put in any production vehicles and there are MANY variations of these blocks which makes it really confusing to follow.

Stage 1 vs Stage 2

Stage 1 and Stage 2 blocks are the SAME blocks just machined differently with different main caps. Stage 1 blocks came with 2 both mains 8 head bolts and oil pump pick up in the stock location. There are said to suffer from core shift more commonly than S2 blocks and the theory is that these blocks were rejected S2 castings sold as aftermarket replacements. S1 blocks can be machined for S2 four bolt main caps and easily drilled for 14 head bolts. I've owned a few S1 over the years and some of them can be nice blocks but I have also heard of people having a lot of issues with them.

The S2 off center blocks come with 4 bolt main caps and 14 bolt heads and the oil pump pick up is in the front of the block and not in the middle like a stock motor due to the four bolt main caps.

BMS made both a 3.8 and a 4.1 S1 and S2 blocks in off-center. These blocks are very desirable for turbo buick owners because they literally drop in with everything bolting up with minimal fabrication. They are also very hard to find in decent shape. A lot of them have been run really hard, damaged then repaired and some are just plain used up. They produced on center blocks in much greater quantity up through the late 90's while the off centers were last produced in the 80's. I only bought the 4.1 off center last year because in 30+ years of racing these cars I never owned a nice one and the one I bought is mint.

Off vs On Center.
The V6 in a turbobuick has one bank of cylinder off set 1/8 of an inch making it "off center" of the crank pin. The connecting rod is also offset to compensate for this to one side. To make an on-center block work you need an on center intake since one side of the offcenter is offset and you have to mill the front covers or shim the crank pulley to make them fit with the factory accessories and align correctly.

On-Center: At some point in the mid 80's Buick Motorsport decided to center the one bank of cylinders making an "on-center" block since they were being used heavily in racing. I believe it is the passenger side that is offset on an off center. I dont believe there was ever a 3.8 bore on-center block and all on center blocks were Stage 2. That's not to say there isnt one out there somewhere as a freak Buick experiment.
Chris,

This is good info but to add a bit of clarification there is a fairly good # of diferent Off center and On center block configurations. The early Off center blocks had production main caps at the #1 and #4 positions. By the time Buick was switching to the On center configuration they had all steel main caps and took a Big Block Chevy main seal rather than a Buick main seal. In regard to On center blocks there was technically a 3.8 block offered although it was the same block with a smaller bore size 3.790" vs 3.960"

Neal
 

turbobuick

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Hey Neal thanks. I agree and put in that post there were a ton of variations as BMS experimented with a bunch of different stuff plus they were used in so many different race organizations it was difficult to keep track of it all. I was just trying to give some generalizations as the questions come up so frequently and I am surprised its not a sticky somewhere on this site. I know you have posted several times answering these types of questions.

Most of the off-centers I have seen had cast caps at #1 and 4 with steel four bolt caps in the center two. It is also worth mentioning the Stage blocks were were a higher quality high nickel content casting making them even stronger. Even when using the center stock cast caps from a S1 block it would still be a lot stronger than the 109 due to the better material and the large bulkhead material the S1 blocks have around the center two caps.

To make things more confusing the block I ran in my TSO car was an on-center 6-bolt center main block lol! I'll have to see if I can dig a picture of that up that was a pretty beefy block.
 
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