Valvebody Differences

[88_pacifica]

I'm sorry to sound like a noob, but when it comes to tranny's, I have a LOT to learn. I am currently taking a trans rebuilding class and I am trying to apply what I am learning to the 2004r and I have a couple questions. Maybe somebody with a more definitive knowledge of these cars could give me some insight. I am hoping one day to actually watch someone teardown and rebuild one of these in person, but I have no idea where or who to even ask that KNOWS wtf they are talking about and could teach somebody like me.

Now, I know the VB's are different between the BRF and another VB's, but what specifically are the differences? Are the individual passages different between models? Are the valves larger/smaller? Why are the BRF's so desirable?

I would REALLY like to see a pic of a standard VB and a BRF VB to see the differences first hand. I have done a bunch of searches, but I can't seem to find any pics of them side by side. Am I just not looking in the right places?

Thanks in advance for any insight and I look forward to the responses!

 

[88_pacifica]

bump

 

[charlief1]

First off, where ya located? Go to your user controls and add it so someone near you may be able to help.

Second thing is that most of the tranny builders on this site have theri own tricks that they aren't going to share, so don't feel insulted if they dont. One of the members here may offer to help you and not all members get on all the time. It may take several days for you to get an answer so chill until someone else chimes in.

Welcome aboard.

 

[bison]

Spend your next week reading the posts in this forum and you will learn as much as possible about a 200-4r without someone who knows exactly what they are doing with one tearing it down and explaining everything as they do it. I've got plenty of cheap br vb's if you need them. $125ea

 

[88_pacifica]

First off, where ya located? Go to your user controls and add it so someone near you may be able to help.

Second thing is that most of the tranny builders on this site have theri own tricks that they aren't going to share, so don't feel insulted if they dont. One of the members here may offer to help you and not all members get on all the time. It may take several days for you to get an answer so chill until someone else chimes in.

Welcome aboard.

Sorry for being impatient and sounding like a tool...

I am in Indy and I have been hunting all over to try and find info on here, TB's, GNTType.org, and wherever else I can look. I really don't want to steal anybody's secrets at all. The last thing I want to do is make enemies. I am very comfortable with most other types of the car, but I just think that transmissions are like the 'little black box' that nobody understands. I want to learn as much as I can to understand the actual 'workings' of what is going on in there. I know that lots of stuff needs replaced for durability, but I just want to know what the heck is happening to make the car move. Again, I am a trans noob...

Should I buy some kind of video that breaks it all down and show what goes on inside? If so, what do you guys recommend?

Oh, and I will be patient and keep looking for more info...

Spend your next week reading the posts in this forum and you will learn as much as possible about a 200-4r without someone who knows exactly what they are doing with one tearing it down and explaining everything as they do it. I've got plenty of cheap br vb's if you need them. $125ea

I may take you up on that. I know that they are rare as hen's teeth anymore, but I am just curious what makes them so rare. Without giving away any 'secret's' what makes them so unique actually? I know that there are 'stages' of VB models from the BRF to the CZ(Monte) on down from there. It has to do with shift points, line pressures, etc, but what makes them so desirable? Are the actual passages differently shaped? Maybe the valves in the body are larger or smaller?

You don't have to give me any specifics at all, I just want a general idea or maybe links to a general idea.

Oh, and as I stated above, I will keep searching and learning and waiting for info. Not trying to be impatient or steal peoples hard work.

 

[charlief1]

Should I buy some kind of video that breaks it all down and show what goes on inside? If so, what do you guys recommend?

At the top of this section is a sticky that will give you some good ideas on how to make the 2004R stronger. as far as a book, Chris at CK Performance has written a good one so you might want to contact him and see if he's got any left you can buy. Very detailed and it will help you build one if you want to. Chris is a vendor on the board so go to the main forum page and at the very bottom you can find the vendors and their contact info.

 

[88_pacifica]

At the top of this section is a sticky that will give you some good ideas on how to make the 2004R stronger. as far as a book, Chris at CK Performance has written a good one so you might want to contact him and see if he's got any left you can buy. Very detailed and it will help you build one if you want to. Chris is a vendor on the board so go to the main forum page and at the very bottom you can find the vendors and their contact info.

Sweet, I ordered that book... thanks Charlie!

 

[bison]

I may take you up on that. I know that they are rare as hen's teeth anymore

They arent rare. How many do you need?

 

[MeanBuicks]

Without giving away any 'secret's' what makes them so unique actually? I know that there are 'stages' of VB models from the BRF to the CZ(Monte) on down from there. It has to do with shift points, line pressures, etc, but what makes them so desirable? Are the actual passages differently shaped? Maybe the valves in the body are larger or smaller?

For the most part, the valve body castings are the same. The differences lie in the calibration which is derived from the sizing of the various valve spool diameters and spring rates. Combined with the valve body separator plate, pressure regulator spring and boost valve in the pump, the BRF calibration was designed specifically by Buick to work best (shift points, shift feel, clutch clamping force) with the LC2 engine and 3.42 rear gear.

 

[88_pacifica]

They arent rare. How many do you need?

I would only need one because I still have my original one that is in my '87 GN, but I want to build another trans up that is 'beefier,' so I would only need one more VB. However, being that I am currently unemployed and desperately trying to find a job, money is tight. I haven't even driven my GN in about 2.5 years because I have no way to do the little things it needs.

I could probably come up with $100 to buy one from you, but it would take me a couple weeks and I'd still be short of what you need for one. Then I'd have to figure in shipping and all that so I'd still be screwed. I am sure that $125 is a very fair price, but when you're living on beans like me, you have to be frugal until something changes...

For the most part, the valve body castings are the same. The differences lie in the calibration which is derived from the sizing of the various valve spool diameters and spring rates. Combined with the valve body separator plate, pressure regulator spring and boost valve in the pump, the BRF calibration was designed specifically by Buick to work best (shift points, shift feel, clutch clamping force) with the LC2 engine and 3.42 rear gear.

I see. I was wondering why they were so hard to 'duplicate' but based on what you're saying about the valve sizes, that is enough right there. The rest of the stuff is relatively easy to update, but it would not be feasible to try and round up rare valves to replace a regular VB. The you have to figure in the machining to even get them the right size. Now it's all getting clearer....

 

[chris718]

As of today there are 48 different valve body calibrations,18 different types of governors that fall under 3 general weight categories,and 4 casting types with different size bores.I have at least 1 of each in my collection.

 

[bison]

Fwiw I run KC code vb's in almost everything I do these days. I have my own governor calibration that varies slightly application to application but it has enabled me to get consistent wot shifts between 5000 and 6200 depending on the governor weight.

 

[ijames]

Richard Clark in Burlington, NC has taught a 200-4R rebuilding class at least once. Go there with your trans and $2-300 for a master rebuild kit and leave in about a week with a tested stock rebuild. He has all the tools and stations for about a dozen guys at once. Don't know when/if he will do it again but his screen name here is A2000RICH .

 

[88_pacifica]

Richard Clark in Burlington, NC has taught a 200-4R rebuilding class at least once. Go there with your trans and $2-300 for a master rebuild kit and leave in about a week with a tested stock rebuild. He has all the tools and stations for about a dozen guys at once. Don't know when/if he will do it again but his screen name here is A2000RICH .

Hmmm.... I will look into that. I am always trying to learn and there is no better method than to watch a professional do it. Thanks Carl!

 

[INEEDAGN]

Fwiw I run KC code vb's in almost everything I do these days. I have my own governor calibration that varies slightly application to application but it has enabled me to get consistent wot shifts between 5000 and 6200 depending on the governor weight.

You willing to trade one of those BRFs for an unmodded KCF valve body? Because I just grabbed a clean KCF core out of the junkyard, stator splines are stripped, it was in the back of the station wagon when the yard yanked the engine. No water in it. I researched it enough to know my stock level junk will not need this mod.


Could probably get more than one of these in the future, assuming you always plan to need more.

 

[88_pacifica]

Bison... PM sent