Up **** creek and have some smog tests

[VadersV6]

I have the original stock chip, and another one that was originally done by Lou Czarnota. Its a stock chip with less timing I believe. One of these chips can be re-burned as an emissions chip for the 50 lb injectors?
If anyone can hook me up with an emissions burn or a new chip for extremely cheap (Christmas really did it to me...yeah its christmas....thats it ) it would be awesome. I think Im going to start hooking all my stock crap back up, fix my header crack...things like that really suck when this is your only car and work 35 miles from home.
So what is done to qualify it as an "emissions chip"? Less timing, less fuel, different EGR strategy or something?

 

[VadersV6]

Actually, I just realized we have a couple chip burners here at work, which we use for programming our own devices and inventions, but anyone who would know how to use them doesnt work here any more, and I wouldnt have the slightest idea how. Theres a quick release adapter sort of thing that plugs into the device programmer, and the chip drops onto the top of that, and it has a quick release lever.
I have 2 types. One doesnt have any sort of serial port and looks pretty old. Looks like its a chip copier. Its a B&C Microsystems 1409C Programmer, and what looks to be the real deal, with an RS 232 cable, is a Needham Electronics EMP-20 Device Programmer. It looks like that quick release adapter thing which is currently on the old one, can be used on the newer EMP one. Theres alot more input pins in the EMP one than there are leads on the chip, so I wouldnt know where to place it or really what to do, if I wanted to download that BIN file on TT and burn myself a chip. Anyone who can walk me through this?

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Get a hold of Eric at Turbotweek. He has a website. He is one of the best. Brad

 

[JayC]

The EMP-20 is a stellar programmer. I have the EMP-11.. Needham's stuff is top quality.

Here's some things I can tell you based off of years burning chips to handle situations like yours. I suspect a lot of it is "luck of the draw" out there in California as Ive heard a lot of varying stories. That being said, here's some things to think about.

1 - Any devation from stock may fail you depending on the inspector.

2 - Any chip that doesnt have the stock PROM ID may fail you. I know someone this happened to.

3 - The ECM in the Turbo Regal cant tell the inspector if the EGR works or not. If it's hooked up and not throwing a code (Which would be for either the solenoid failing or it being unhooked) they have no way of knowing if it's blocked off or whatever.

4 - Trade in your wife for a newer model.

Hope that helps.

 

[VadersV6]

The EMP-20 is a stellar programmer. I have the EMP-11.. Needham's stuff is top quality.

Here's some things I can tell you based off of years burning chips to handle situations like yours. I suspect a lot of it is "luck of the draw" out there in California as Ive heard a lot of varying stories. That being said, here's some things to think about.

1 - Any devation from stock may fail you depending on the inspector.

2 - Any chip that doesnt have the stock PROM ID may fail you. I know someone this happened to.

3 - The ECM in the Turbo Regal cant tell the inspector if the EGR works or not. If it's hooked up and not throwing a code (Which would be for either the solenoid failing or it being unhooked) they have no way of knowing if it's blocked off or whatever.

4 - Trade in your wife for a newer model.

Hope that helps.

WOW so I have an actual chip burner. Is there anything you could email me or PM me, and help me with dumping that TT emissions bin onto a chip? Is there any way to alter the program for 50 pound injectors? I cant believe Ive had this thing here at work this whole time. Its got an adapter or socket on it for some square wafer type chip, but it looks like that other adapter can drop right into it. But I wouldnt know which way to offset it since there are more sockets than pins. Dont worry chip guys...Im not going to get into the custom chip business. No time..

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

I would spend the $75 and have Turbotweek do it for you based on your mods and needs. It will be alot faster with less aggravation. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[JayC]

The EMP20 uses interface modules for different types of chips. Thats what the rectangle wafers are for.

 

[VadersV6]

The EMP20 uses interface modules for different types of chips. Thats what the rectangle wafers are for.

This just has 1 port on the face. Theres a separate circuit board with 1 socket for a square chip thats plugged into it. I guess thats the interface module you're talking about. But there arent any others. That interface by the way, doesnt occupy every pin socket. There are maybe 4 or 6 that arent used. The interface module can pop off and then Im left with the bare socket. I can plug that rectangular interface that was on the chip copier into it and then have a way to mount the TR chip. It wasnt made for the EMP20, but it really doesnt seem to matter. It plugs right in. I just dont know if I should plug it in to the bottom set of sockets or top, or in the middle, etc.
If I had 75 bucks right now, I would avoid the hassle, but given I have a chip burner, it seems like there really wouldnt be much to it. Theres one guy that could probably do this for me in his sleep, but he comes in once in a blue moon. Sucks cause he was here last week, and I didnt even know about this thing.

 

[JayC]

Sure you have an EMP20?

The long socket is for the family modules. Assuming it uses the same one as the EMP11, you need module 112A.

The EPROM goes in the ZIF socket starting at the bottom.

 

[TurboDave]

This just has 1 port on the face. Theres a separate circuit board with 1 socket for a square chip thats plugged into it. I guess thats the interface module you're talking about. But there arent any others. That interface by the way, doesnt occupy every pin socket. There are maybe 4 or 6 that arent used. The interface module can pop off and then Im left with the bare socket. I can plug that rectangular interface that was on the chip copier into it and then have a way to mount the TR chip. It wasnt made for the EMP20, but it really doesnt seem to matter. It plugs right in. I just dont know if I should plug it in to the bottom set of sockets or top, or in the middle, etc.
If I had 75 bucks right now, I would avoid the hassle, but given I have a chip burner, it seems like there really wouldnt be much to it. Theres one guy that could probably do this for me in his sleep, but he comes in once in a blue moon. Sucks cause he was here last week, and I didnt even know about this thing.

If you haven't had any experience burning your own, it can be a harrowing experience the first time around. Too many details.... Erase a chip/or find a blank (that will still need to be erased for safety's sake), then you have to hope to get a clean burn, and before that even happens you need to either turn check sum "checking" off, or write in the correct check sum into the first two locations, etc. etc.
Let me check something when I get home this evening.. 50# injectors, right?

 

[VadersV6]

If you haven't had any experience burning your own, it can be a harrowing experience the first time around. Too many details.... Erase a chip/or find a blank (that will still need to be erased for safety's sake), then you have to hope to get a clean burn, and before that even happens you need to either turn check sum "checking" off, or write in the correct check sum into the first two locations, etc. etc.
Let me check something when I get home this evening.. 50# injectors, right?

The programmer buddy of mine who went to Cal tech is coming here today, and he'll probably be able to get this going for me. He writes SCARY code and is a serious top notch programmer. He writes all the operating systems for our automation lines. The last program had like 100,000 lines of code. This would be like wiping his nose. C++ is childs play for him. He writes in scheme now. Not too many who know this code. I do have the EMP-20. I just dont have the modules. I was looking at it last night and it became obvious to me how to mount it. Its drawn right on the friggin thing, but I didnt understand what it meant till I popped the chip out of the comb. I may have an emissions chip burned by the end of the day if he shows up. I also downloaded the DOS program for the EMP. It asks for different port configurations, but doesnt simply say port 1 or port 2. But Dean (the programmer) told me what was what in an email. Still cant believe Ive had this thing here all this time and never knew it cause it was packed away in a non descript box.

 

[TurboDave]

The programmer buddy of mine who went to Cal tech is coming here today, and he'll probably be able to get this going for me. He writes SCARY code and is a serious top notch programmer. He writes all the operating systems for our automation lines. The last program had like 100,000 lines of code. This would be like wiping his nose. C++ is childs play for him. He writes in scheme now. Not too many who know this code. I do have the EMP-20. I just dont have the modules. I was looking at it last night and it became obvious to me how to mount it. Its drawn right on the friggin thing, but I didnt understand what it meant till I popped the chip out of the comb. I may have an emissions chip burned by the end of the day if he shows up. I also downloaded the DOS program for the EMP. It asks for different port configurations, but doesnt simply say port 1 or port 2. But Dean (the programmer) told me what was what in an email. Still cant believe Ive had this thing here all this time and never knew it cause it was packed away in a non descript box.

Rememeber, you'll either need to know where to turn the check sum "check" off, or re compute the chips check sum (minus locations 00 and 01) and then put that value into locations 00 and 01 (once all your changes are made) or the chip will never work.

 

[VadersV6]

Rememeber, you'll either need to know where to turn the check sum "check" off, or re compute the chips check sum (minus locations 00 and 01) and then put that value into locations 00 and 01 (once all your changes are made) or the chip will never work.

Im sure He'll know what you're talking about. I take it this has something to do with the number of lines of code being different?

 

[TurboDave]

OK. Sounds like you're striking out on your own so I'll keep my 50# smog chip.

 

[VadersV6]

OK. Sounds like you're striking out on your own so I'll keep my 50# smog chip.

Striking out on my own? We hooked it up at the end of the day, and there was a communications issue. I think it has to do with the processor speed of the computer being too high for the programmer (made in 95), and the parallel port speed needs the delay brought up. There was just no time left last night, so Im getting back to it later today. I threw my EGR back on as well, last night.
I still dont know what the sarcasm is all about. Striking out? I misunderstood something in that post, so my response didnt make sense, and its too late to delete. Wouldnt the checksum be already taken care of with the turbotweak 50# Emissions binary? I dont get why it wouldnt be.

 

[TurboDave]

Striking out on my own? We hooked it up at the end of the day, and there was a communications issue. I think it has to do with the processor speed of the computer being too high for the programmer (made in 95), and the parallel port speed needs the delay brought up. There was just no time left last night, so Im getting back to it later today. I threw my EGR back on as well, last night.
I still dont know what the sarcasm is all about. Striking out? I misunderstood something in that post, so my response didnt make sense, and its too late to delete. Wouldnt the checksum be already taken care of with the turbotweak 50# Emissions binary? I dont get why it wouldnt be.

That wasn't meant as sarcasm. I was going to try and find a proven 50# smog chip I used to use while in San Diego, but you seemed insistant on trying out the programming route. No problem, and no sarcasm meant. If you already have a binary file, then yes it would be taken care of. I assumed you were going to go in and change the injector constant of a stock chip (the method I found to be best).

BTW, make sure you have a GOOD cat. and fully functional EGR.

 

[VadersV6]

That wasn't meant as sarcasm. I was going to try and find a proven 50# smog chip I used to use while in San Diego, but you seemed insistant on trying out the programming route. No problem, and no sarcasm meant. If you already have a binary file, then yes it would be taken care of. I assumed you were going to go in and change the injector constant of a stock chip (the method I found to be best).

BTW, make sure you have a GOOD cat. and fully functional EGR.

I wasnt insistent on anything. You hadnt offered me that chip and didnt mention anything about that other than "ill see what I can find" or something like that until you said you'll hold onto your 50# emissions chip...at which point I was thinking...he never offered it..lol
I am definetely insistent on figuring out how to do my own chips, but thats in the long run. As for getting an emissions chip, I'm open to anything. I would definetely like to retain the ECM ID number, if they're going to be looking for that, in which case changing the injector constant on my stock chip would be perfect. At this point, I know absolutely nothing about programming a chip. I know CNC languages (G-Code, conversational) and havent programmed since 8th grade in 1985 on a TI computer in basic...damn Im old.
Whats the difference between the 2 different burns on turbotweak? One is emissions for 50# injectors, and there is another stock type burn with "emphasis" on emissions and some other things. Which would be better, and what is this emphasis on emissions? Some altered EGR strategy and retarded timing, but ok for WOT, unlike the other one?

 

[VadersV6]

Also, does anyone have a stock airbox they could sell me? Also the tube that runs from the passenger side valve cover to the turbo? Only thing about that is that I dont have an inlet bell since I have a TE-44. Not sure what Im going to do there.
And another thing...I have a 160 thermostat. Thats a guaranteed fail right there isnt it? The engine wont reach factory operating temps, not to mention the cooler running engine automatically wont burn as clean. I should also use stock range spark plugs so the plugs stay nice and hot. I think Im going to make a wastegate arm nut thats threaded on one side and a slip fit on the other, so the arm will just slip in and out, but it will appear to be all connected and working. But the puck will stay open the whole time.

 

[tom h]

... Only thing about that is that I dont have an inlet bell since I have a TE-44. Not sure what Im going to do there.

If you have a flexible rubber coupling where the MAF pipe connects to the inlet bell, then you could drill a hole in the rubber coupling and route the passenger side cover's vent into the rubber coupling. This is functionally identical to the stock turbo setup.

For example , look at the coupling on right hand side, from http://www.buickgn.com/bigmouth.htm

I haven't personally tried this, but IIRC there was a post in the "Emissions" forum where someone passed Calif visual inspect this way.

 

[Jerryl]

Also, does anyone have a stock airbox they could sell me?

PM me your address.
I'll send you a stock air cleaner box, free.