Turbo done again???

[T-Type Mike]

Guys, my TA-49 has been rebuilt twice in 2 years. I was cleaning the car today and decided to take the inlet pipe off to shine it up. I pulled the pipe and noticed oil on the inside of the inlet bell, also found a slight bit of movement in the shaft... It sounds like she's done again.
With my modifications what would be the most bang for the buck improvement turbo wise. I have heard of difficulties with the PT series turbo's, any other recommendations?? Oh take into account that I will be pulling the heads for rebuild and porting over the winter. Totally a stock block. Any and all help is appreciated. Mike

 

[YGETV8]

Hi Mike,

I feel your pain... I JUST came in from the garage where I discovered that my TA62 is "gone" and this after wiping out a TA61 last year!

When you refer to "PT series" do you mean PTE turbos as a whole? Or the PT51, PT52 etc.? I had a PT51 on my GN and loved it! Don't know about longevity as I sold it a few months after I put it on, but it was used when I bought it.

With your converter you might enjoy a TA61. I really liked it, even with a stock converter. Only replaced it when I discovered it had wiped the bearings. Now on to bigger and better things, I guess! I'm going to buy NEW this time and REALLY considering mounting a BOV on my IC!

Good Luck!

 

[Two Lane]

SHORT-LIVED AFTERMARKET TURBOS

This is another reported instance indicating aftermarket turbos can have VERY brief lives!

Seen dozens more posts like it, too.

Seems a BOV should be in the box with every new turbo!

( But that might reduce turbo sales )

 

[azgn]

two lane, you are full of more crap than a xmas goose!

if a turbo is built properly, a BOV will do absolutley no good in extending its life (unless you have a manual transmission)

and...I challenge you to prove there is any value whatsoever in using a bov on an automatic car! There are lots of 100K mile turbos out there

personally, if I were buying a TA-49, I would buy it from John Craig...problem sloved

and T-typemike....who rebuilt your turbo?

you don't need anything bigger until you are going mid 11's

 

[cool 84]

I have a feeling a BOV will help on the big turbo/big intercooler cars. Mine's going back together with a BOV this time around. I have a big intercooler with 10' of 3" piping. Just letting off the gas at 1-2psi makes a very loud and long sneeze. While we don't let off the gas at shifts, we still let off the gas under boost pretty often. While I don't know a whole lot about the internals of a turbo, it would seem to me running a large compressor and turbine on a stock shaft and bearing system would put more load than it was designed for. From what I've read on here, lifting while under boost puts a huge load on the thrust surface. Besides, what better way to impress all the ricers .

 

[azgn]

exactly...good for noise and gee whiz

otherwise, a waste of $$$

 

[YGETV8]

I guess I didn't mention that both the turbos I mentioned above were bought used, so I can't report on their actual longevity... just that I was the lucky one to have them when they "went south!"

As far as a BOV, BOTH of mine seemed to have lost their thrust bearings after high boost visits to the track, at which I tend to yank my foot off the pedal after a 25-26 psi run. Just thought that maybe I was stressing them too much by doing this. Could be wrong.

Jay

 

[azgn]

oh horse pucky...I run a bit more boost than that and have more than a few passes.........

what ruins turbos is what you put thru them after a 26 lb boost run with detonation

it has nothing to do with getting off the gas

 

[c&cgn]

Mike, another ADP turbo take a dump on you? Do you need another turbo right now or is the car going to sit over the winter? Let me know and maybe we'll talk about my 52 ?

Forget about ADP stuff. It doesn't seem to last and they won't stand behind it. PTE has always been good to me, and John Craig reputation precedes itself as well.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

Re: SHORT-LIVED AFTERMARKET TURBOS

Originally posted by Two Lane
This is another reported instance indicating aftermarket turbos can have VERY brief lives!

Seen dozens more posts like it, too.

Seems a BOV should be in the box with every new turbo!

( But that might reduce turbo sales )

better yet I bet if you do a thread about short lived turbo's with each person that has had the short lived problem post where their turbo came from I bet it would narrow down who buick guys buy turbo's from

 

[Two Lane]

That info would be VERY interesting, Red!

 

[YGETV8]

Originally posted by azgn
oh horse pucky...I run a bit more boost than that and have more than a few passes.........

what ruins turbos is what you put thru them after a 26 lb boost run with detonation

it has nothing to do with getting off the gas

Woody... not sure I follow you here? Do you mean if you do harm to the motor then contaminated oil goes through the turbo? That I understand. (I don't think I hurt my motor, though.)

Jay

 

[cool 84]

Re: Re: SHORT-LIVED AFTERMARKET TURBOS

Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
better yet I bet if you do a thread about short lived turbo's with each person that has had the short lived problem post where their turbo came from I bet it would narrow down who buick guys buy turbo's from

LOL. I'll be quiet and just say I agree.

 

[azgn]

Jay, I guess my point was I doubt turbos fail because of no BOV, they fail because of contaminated oil, poor build, and severe thrashing (as in racing.....)

turbos tend to wear a bit quicker at 25 lbs of boost

 

[tminer]

Originally posted by azgn
turbos tend to wear a bit quicker at 25 lbs of boost

If that is true, and I tend to agree, then why wouldn't stalling the compressor increase wear? I would assume that some instability is introduced that would increase the forces as much or more than just the increased turbo rpms and associated increased effect of any imbalance that result from high boost.

When getting on, off, and back on the gas the compressor can stall and therefor require a "respool". A bypass valve (maybe BOV too, I don't know) should eliminate a lot of that just like it does while shifting a manual. So there can be a benefit, although it is a bit of a stretch.

I don't like the argument that there are plenty of stock turbos with boocoo miles that didn't have BOVs. It's just apples to oranges. Smaller wheels, less boost, maybe even tighter manufacturing tolerances.

I read something about the oil fittings on the turbo restricting the flow. Sometimes they get replaced with unrestricted ones and the additional oil volume can cause seal failure. Also, seal failure and bearing wear are two separate and unrelated items. I believe that John Craig was cited as the source, but I can't swear to that.

Tom

 

[87GN_70GS]

They fail because the thrust bearing can't take the thrust (axial) load of the just-compressed air exiting out of the compressor inducer. All 49's should be (most newer ones generally are) made with the improved 360 degree thrust bearing, which also has the benefit of larger oil feed holes, which are less prone to clogging due to dirty oil.

 

[tminer]

Originally posted by 87GN_70GS
They fail because the thrust bearing can't take the thrust (axial) load of the just-compressed air exiting out of the compressor inducer.

That would seem to make the case for a BOV. That is one of the standard claims. But the consensus is that with the 360* thrust bearing it isn't a problem. I'd have to believe that there is a lot greater thrust bearing load after the throttle closes at 25 psi than before. Of course it would be for a much shorter time.

Tom

 

[azgn]

most folks don't use BOV's to "save" the turbo...they put 'em on so they don't lose all their boost when shifting

if you happen to think such a device is beneficial to your setup, I am not gonna argue

I remain unconvinced they are worthwhile on an auto trans car unless you have a habit of a lot of full boost, close throttle activity

at the drag strip, most folks don't do that

 

[T-Type Mike]

Sorry guys, I let this post slide here. The turbo was built by one of our local "reputable" turbo shops in town here. Many of the other GNRA guys used to swear by them, Just over the last 2 years we have started to hear of some undesirable misfortunes with their products. I myself have gone through 2, this will be #3. DO you guys really feel that strongly about BOV??? I have been following threads on these for a while now with no real definative answer... Thanks for your help guys, always appreciated. Mike

P.S. Clayton, will send you email. Thanks...