TR Custom Parts/GN1 Intercooler

[BlackBandit]

180 at highway speeds in 75* weather is not good imo. Yes as mike stated the car might run well at that temp, but outside temp and coolant temp are pretty linear. If you are running 180 in 75* heat its gonna run 200 in 95* heat. and 210-220 with the AC on just like my car was with that same aluminum radiator. 180 in 75* heat is in no way a testament to the radiator. My car was 177-180 yesterday in 100* heat with my 4 row stocker that I had to reinstall after the disappointment of the aluminum unit. I got on it 3-4 times and it went to 190ish and then came back down to 178ish. With the aluminum radiator ya'll sell I was seeing 195-205 just cruising. If I got on it, it couldnt get rid of the heat, even after 5-10 mins of just cruising.

Coolant temps should NOT be linear. If you have a 180* t-stat you should be at 180* whether it's 30* out or 90* out. Anytime you're coolant starts to go above your t-stat temp you're exceeding the capabilities of your cooling system. That's just the way it is. Now, many people are ok with that because it isn't a neccessity to have a cooling system that's capable of dissipating all the energy all the time. It just needs to be able to control and recover. (like when the temp climbs during a run and then comes back down) If you're at a point where your coolant is all ready higher than your t-stat during normal conditions though you're asking for problems durring more extreme conditions. This is evidenced by coolant temps rising with ambient temps. I guess what I'm saying is that while there are many opinions about what's acceptable the above are facts and my opinion is that your cooling system should be able to maintain your t-stat temp during whatever your normal conditions are so that when you have an extreme condition it isn't as likely to be completely inadequate.

One last thing that is important to note is that the radiator is only part of the cooling system. Everything from airflow over the raditor and engine, water pump, hose routing, coolant type, and more makes up the cooling system. Enhancing any one part of the system will yield some improvement in system performance but finding the weak link and working on that will yeild the best results.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Well here is the list of things done to my setup
1. Monte Carlo SS air dam that goes across the whole bottom portion of the radiatior except for the holes cut for the FMIC piping
2. Flowcooler water pump (also used a new stock unit as well)
3. I tried a 160* thermostat and a high flow 160 as well as running no thermostat were all tested
4. purple ice and distilled water.
5.I made a boxing kit out of a couple of plastic office trashcans
6. Unhooked the oil cooler.
7. My dual fans are from an intrepid but I use Racetronix hotwire kit that runs power from the battery. I had a low voltage issue because of some crappy butt connectors I used to splice in the stock fan connector, so I soldered it and now have 13.8 volts at the fans.

Yullose I have no issues with aluminum radiators in general. I have issues with this specific one.
I have checked for combustion in the water and there is nothing. The motor is new and the block and heads both had their coolant passages cleaned out.
The friend I have that is having problems is also with this brand radiator.
My temps after all the above mods were 195* on a 100 degree day with no AC(65-70 mph btw, higher if sitting in traffic), 205-210 if I got into boost much at all and it would never go down from there. If I kicked the AC on it went to 215-220 and I didn't leave it on long enough to see if there was a limit. Basically I spent 375 for a downgrade.
So I got frustrated and reinstalled my 4 row stock unit that I had cleaned out. I took it for a drive and it hit 178 max on a 94* evening. I took it out yesterday when it was 100+ and it went to 180 and held. I did a few 3rd gear pulls and it went to 190, but after only a mile or so of cruising it was all the way back to 177-179.
Thats my story. There are no variables left for cooling the damn thing. I have already spent way to much time and money and have a pretty aluminum unit that is no good imo. There is a small chance that it is just my unit that is bad, but I got the run around and it was never going to be taken care of as a defective unit. IMO its a bad design. Its basically an aluminum version of a stock radiator with small 3/8 rows. The beauty of aluminum is that you should run less rows but bigger rows like 5/8"-1" . I guess its a learning lesson and I hope people can learn from my issue. If you are up north and you never see temps above 90* and run a SLIC then it will probably work great. In fact I will sell the damn thing for 200+ shipping to anybody that wants it. It has a couple of fins that were probably pushed flat during the different installs/reinstalls but the oil cooler has had no dirty oil through it and the tranny cooler was not hooked up.

 

[JDSfastGN]

BTW GRAY86T-TYPE Im sorry for hi-jacking your thread. If you would like me to start my own I will copy and paste my post into my own.

 

[BlackBandit]

Well here is the list of things done to my setup
1. Monte Carlo SS air dam that goes across the whole bottom portion of the radiatior except for the holes cut for the FMIC piping
2. Flowcooler water pump (also used a new stock unit as well)
3. I tried a 160* thermostat and a high flow 160 as well as running no thermostat were all tested
4. purple ice and distilled water.
5.I made a boxing kit out of a couple of plastic office trashcans
6. Unhooked the oil cooler.
7. My dual fans are from an intrepid but I use Racetronix hotwire kit that runs power from the battery. I had a low voltage issue because of some crappy butt connectors I used to splice in the stock fan connector, so I soldered it and now have 13.8 volts at the fans.

Yullose I have no issues with aluminum radiators in general. I have issues with this specific one.
I have checked for combustion in the water and there is nothing. The motor is new and the block and heads both had their coolant passages cleaned out.
The friend I have that is having problems is also with this brand radiator.
My temps after all the above mods were 195* on a 100 degree day with no AC(65-70 mph btw, higher if sitting in traffic), 205-210 if I got into boost much at all and it would never go down from there. If I kicked the AC on it went to 215-220 and I didn't leave it on long enough to see if there was a limit. Basically I spent 375 for a downgrade.
So I got frustrated and reinstalled my 4 row stock unit that I had cleaned out. I took it for a drive and it hit 178 max on a 94* evening. I took it out yesterday when it was 100+ and it went to 180 and held. I did a few 3rd gear pulls and it went to 190, but after only a mile or so of cruising it was all the way back to 177-179.
Thats my story. There are no variables left for cooling the damn thing. I have already spent way to much time and money and have a pretty aluminum unit that is no good imo. There is a small chance that it is just my unit that is bad, but I got the run around and it was never going to be taken care of as a defective unit. IMO its a bad design. Its basically an aluminum version of a stock radiator with small 3/8 rows. The beauty of aluminum is that you should run less rows but bigger rows like 5/8"-1" . I guess its a learning lesson and I hope people can learn from my issue. If you are up north and you never see temps above 90* and run a SLIC then it will probably work great. In fact I will sell the damn thing for 200+ shipping to anybody that wants it. It has a couple of fins that were probably pushed flat during the different installs/reinstalls but the oil cooler has had no dirty oil through it and the tranny cooler was not hooked up.

Just so you know I wasn't implying that you hadn't done other things with your cooling system. It definitely sounds like this radiator doesn't work as well as your current radiator and you are right on about the tube size. A little trivia most dont' know is that aluminum does NOT transfer heat as well as copper. The ability to build large thin walled tubes which in turn enables you to run a thinner radiator that flows more air combine to make aluminum radiators work better than copper/brass types. You might want to check out a be-cool radiator.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Just so you know I wasn't implying that you hadn't done other things with your cooling system. It definitely sounds like this radiator doesn't work as well as your current radiator and you are right on about the tube size. A little trivia most dont' know is that aluminum does NOT transfer heat as well as copper. The ability to build large thin walled tubes which in turn enables you to run a thinner radiator that flows more air combine to make aluminum radiators work better than copper/brass types. You might want to check out a be-cool radiator.

No problem I didn't take it that way. I just decided to tell my whole story and clarify some things because I re-read some of my post and decided i had written them as if everybody had read my emails back and forth with Mark. I might have to look into a be-cool unit at some point but for now I'm tapped out and am gonna have to stick with the old unit. Thanks for the reply

 

[T- Type Tim]

you know that was one of the worst hijacks i've ever read on this board

 

[Jerryl]

Here is my take on this.
Sometimes “things” go wrong. (**** happens . . . read on )
Anyone who has been working on these cars will sooner or later get a part that is either defective, or plainly does not work.

So, it is plausible that the first batch of the radiators, and/or other following batches of this radiator worked GREAT, but quality slipped.
In the end, it can be just one bad part in the radiator (As supported by multiple evidence).
I would bet my own $$$ that this is possibly a quality control issue.

A simple “tube wall thickness error” may be the result of the lower than expected performance; Reduced heat transfer, and reduced coolant flow, a double negative.
Only one way to find out.
Yes, air flow is important ........ and if we Ass-U-Me it to be an error in this experiment ....... it was a "constant".

Speaking of **** happens, here is an example;
Look at the “precision ground roller lifters” from Comp cams.
These are precision MFG'd parts that do not have a good reputation in the TR world.
The worst part is listed as the "lack of customer service and responsibility to correct the issue".

Mark is an awesome vendor, and I am sure he wants to drill down to the bottom of this, and make it right.
No one wants to sell a part that is known to be substandard to the intended design specs.

So, (in an attempt to not hijack this thread and from the listed real life radiator testing :tongue;
One better be DAMN sure you have an extra stout radiator set-up, on a street car, in the south, with a 4” front mount.

 

[GRAY86T-TYPE]

Air scoop and gbody dual fans is the ticket.I went from a single fan fbody rad. at 200 degrees driving down the road.to 165 highest i've seen it has been 167 on a hot florida day.Scoop going to the dual fans is amazing.

The dual fans don't fit with the Big Boy Intercooler. The pipe is up against the factory fan.

 

[GRAY86T-TYPE]

180 - 200 water temp is fine, in fact if you have ALKY your car will likly run better at 180 than 160

If its running 198 on a 72 degree day, what it going to be running on a 95 degree day?

 

[GRAY86T-TYPE]

I sometimes wonder if the folks buying aluminum radiators have underlying or unknown issues with the cooling system and expect the aluminum radiator to solve all problems.
...

Everything on the car is new, from front to back.

 

[GRAY86T-TYPE]

BTW GRAY86T-TYPE Im sorry for hi-jacking your thread. If you would like me to start my own I will copy and paste my post into my own.

Thanks for trying to help, keep posting if you like

 

[jhanson1750]

I am currently going through very similar issues with my 86'. I will be doing a lot of testing on various airflow control devices. I will be posting my findings once I get my stock radiator back for some compairisons (sp?) Jon Hanson

 

[gnbooster87]

Well here is the list of things done to my setup
1. Monte Carlo SS air dam that goes across the whole bottom portion of the radiatior except for the holes cut for the FMIC piping
2. Flowcooler water pump (also used a new stock unit as well)
3. I tried a 160* thermostat and a high flow 160 as well as running no thermostat were all tested
4. purple ice and distilled water.
5.I made a boxing kit out of a couple of plastic office trashcans
6. Unhooked the oil cooler.
7. My dual fans are from an intrepid but I use Racetronix hotwire kit that runs power from the battery. I had a low voltage issue because of some crappy butt connectors I used to splice in the stock fan connector, so I soldered it and now have 13.8 volts at the fans.

Yullose I have no issues with aluminum radiators in general. I have issues with this specific one.
I have checked for combustion in the water and there is nothing. The motor is new and the block and heads both had their coolant passages cleaned out.
The friend I have that is having problems is also with this brand radiator.
My temps after all the above mods were 195* on a 100 degree day with no AC(65-70 mph btw, higher if sitting in traffic), 205-210 if I got into boost much at all and it would never go down from there. If I kicked the AC on it went to 215-220 and I didn't leave it on long enough to see if there was a limit. Basically I spent 375 for a downgrade.
So I got frustrated and reinstalled my 4 row stock unit that I had cleaned out. I took it for a drive and it hit 178 max on a 94* evening. I took it out yesterday when it was 100+ and it went to 180 and held. I did a few 3rd gear pulls and it went to 190, but after only a mile or so of cruising it was all the way back to 177-179.
Thats my story. There are no variables left for cooling the damn thing. I have already spent way to much time and money and have a pretty aluminum unit that is no good imo. There is a small chance that it is just my unit that is bad, but I got the run around and it was never going to be taken care of as a defective unit. IMO its a bad design. Its basically an aluminum version of a stock radiator with small 3/8 rows. The beauty of aluminum is that you should run less rows but bigger rows like 5/8"-1" . I guess its a learning lesson and I hope people can learn from my issue. If you are up north and you never see temps above 90* and run a SLIC then it will probably work great. In fact I will sell the damn thing for 200+ shipping to anybody that wants it. It has a couple of fins that were probably pushed flat during the different installs/reinstalls but the oil cooler has had no dirty oil through it and the tranny cooler was not hooked up.

Im having the same problems as well =(

 

[scot w.]

I have the GN1 front mount I/C also and still running the stock single fan too. I also installed the F-Body aluminum radiator and my temps in stop and go traffic at 80-90* outside my car runs right at 180-190*.. Then once the car gets moving the temps settle down to 170-180*.

Oh i'm also running my "Air Box in Kit" :biggrin: Drops temps between 10-20*

Welcome to GNSPerformance.com


SW.

 

[JDSfastGN]

Scott I believe that the Fbody radiator is a much better design then the GN1/buickGN.com radiator that is in the cars here that are havin cooling issues. Its good to see you having luck cooling the car with the big FMIC and a stock fan. I just ended up with this radiator because it had all the coolers and it seemed like a good deal at the time...... live and learn, Jhanson I'll be curious to hear your results after putting in the stocker.
gnbooster what radiator and setup are you running?

 

[gnbooster87]

Scott I believe that the Fbody radiator is a much better design then the GN1/buickGN.com radiator that is in the cars here that are havin cooling issues. Its good to see you having luck cooling the car with the big FMIC and a stock fan. I just ended up with this radiator because it had all the coolers and it seemed like a good deal at the time...... live and learn, Jhanson I'll be curious to hear your results after putting in the stocker.
gnbooster what radiator and setup are you running?

TRCUSTOMS aluminum rad and PTE SLIC

 

[The_Six]

Scott,
does the Air box kit help out that much I was going to Knoxville this weekend and hit 220.

 

[scot w.]

Scott,
does the Air box kit help out that much I was going to Knoxville this weekend and hit 220.

YES it does work! I have several customers here in the knoxville area that can contest to this also. You might want to look at your radiator to make sure it's not stopped up. These "Box-in kits" won't solve a bad radiator issue but they do work.

Why do you think GM tried to do this with the Flimsy rubber on the sides and bottom of the radiator? That failed due to the flimsyness and dryrot..

PS: When the radiator is BOXED in where is "ALL" the AIR FORCED TO go? When it's NOT boxed in, Some of the air hits the front mount and goes through it and about 40% is deflected off to the sides and out the bottom before even getting to the radiator!

Same kind of senario as a fan shroud on a older car, without the fan shroud alot of cars overheated. as soon as one was put back into place it cooled properly again. This happens because you went from a fan pulling air from any place around it, to directly all the air through it simply due to the PULL OF AIR "THROUGH" the radiator. I think of it as "The Tunnel Effect".


SW.

 

[xcessiv6]

You have missed many things that could cause hot temps.
A loose convertor
Timing
The block being bored

My car for example runs hotter above 2500 rpm because that is when the cam comes in. I have a loose convertor and for me to do 75-80 mph it turns about 2800 rpm runs 190/210 temp.

Also you can have 85 degree day with high hummidity its not going to cool the same as with low hummdity.

 

[JDSfastGN]

You have missed many things that could cause hot temps.
A loose convertor
Timing
The block being bored

My car for example runs hotter above 2500 rpm because that is when the cam comes in. I have a loose convertor and for me to do 75-80 mph it turns about 2800 rpm runs 190/210 temp.

Also you can have 85 degree day with high hummidity its not going to cool the same as with low hummdity.

all these variables were the same between both radiators if you are referring to me. Same chip, fans turn on at 160, yes its a non lockup but it has 3.23s so it revs about the same as a l/u with 3.42s, and the motor has been bored .030 for years. Bottom line is that I removed Marks radiator which was running hot, and reinstalled my 4 core stocker and it runs substantially cooler, with the temp drop from one side of the radiator to the other being a lot more with the stocker vs marks according to my IR gun. I am not the only one that is having issues, and its starting to show in this thread as more people bring it up. Where are the variables? It was as back to back as I can get. Why does nobody stand behind a product? If it was a turbo that didn't make but 20 psi when it should make 30 lbs of boost, it would be taken back for a full refund but if a radiator is a POS then it must be something else causing it... or the temps im seeing are ok and I shouldn't worry that its running 220 with the AC on. Bottom line is that the temps aren't acceptable . My car doesn't run better at 180 vs 160, and this was proven on the dyno to me. If anybody is interested in Marks radiator and doubts my claims... Ive already posted, $200+ shipping and its all yours. Less than 300 miles on it.