to intercool or to not intercool???

[bigdwg03]

Im gonna be running a big turbo in a street driven car, just wanted to know should I run the intercooler or just buy a dual alky kit and save the cost? I planned on running alky anyway what kind of boost can i run with just alky as opposed to alky and an intercooler?

thanks

 

[bigdwg03]

Anyone???
Here is the plan: series III Buick v6 (better PM rods) I know guys are taking these motors to 800+ HP and 8500 rpm. Im going to run a nasty roller cam a 70gtq turbo and stuff it in a 72 vega weighing in at 2600lbs with me in it. Can I get to the 800 horse mark with no IC and just meth injection? I wanna run 8.60s and still drive the thing around town. I was planning on running a 2 step, one set at 10lbs (I should be able to tune with pump gas and no alky) and the other on a throttle switch so when I mash the gas I can get 25lbs and the meth will spray and can still cruise on low boost/meth.... Will this work? Any help would be awesome I'd like to put the car together once and be done than redo stuff a few times (haha)
Thanks

 

[Razor]

25 is a lot of boost. And I would say i'd use a small ic and the meth on top.

You'll use less alcohol and everything will work better.

What engine management?

 

[bigdwg03]

25 is a lot of boost. And I would say i'd use a small ic and the meth on top.

You'll use less alcohol and everything will work better.

What engine management?

It's OBD I so I was probably gonna run HP tuners or something similar. Fast is a little pricey for me. I don't mind using a lot of meth, it's cheaper than gas and it will only come in under high boost so I won't be using much on the street. Plus if I run no IC isnt there less restriction in the system anyway? Thus i would need less boost to make the power I want?

 

[Razor]

Let me explain it in a different fashion, every lb of boost is 11 degree's. Above ambient.

25 PSI is 275 degrees coming out of the turbo and if its 100 degree's outside your at 375 degree's. Your wanting to cool that down into the lower 100's.. so the motor doesnt melt down.250 degree drop will require a lot of methanol and be creative on how many nozzles and their placement.

Even if you bought a cheap IC on Ebay rated for 400 HP or whatever.. that will bring temps down and the meth system doesnt have to work as hard.

Especially when tuning software you have is really not ideal for this.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

The Vega probably requires a custom Front Mount Intercooler but what about running a big stock location like a PTE?

Razors way would be easier to pull off if you have a good IC to help, otherwise you'd need to monitor your MATs so you could run the proper amount of Meth to get those temps down and maybe run 25psi on pump.

If you ran 100 octane and 3 Meth nozzles (1 3gph preturbo, 2 15gph postturbo) I'd say you could do it, but pump with Meth and no IC at 25psi is really on and over the edge unless you run super low timing.

E85 and Meth would do it but that requires more fuel system tweaks.

 

[kshef]

I run 22psi and no intercooler on my series II 3.8 with a small turbo....don't know how it works but it does

8.60's and no intercooler? why? with the kind of money required to build a car like that why would you not put an intercooler on it?

800+hp, nasty roller cam, 70gtq....doesn't sound like a fun "street car"

 

[Razor]

I run 22psi and no intercooler on my series II 3.8 with a small turbo....don't know how it works but it does

8.60's and no intercooler? why? with the kind of money required to build a car like that why would you not put an intercooler on it?

800+hp, nasty roller cam, 70gtq....doesn't sound like a fun "street car"

When you make less power you have a lot more slack. As the power level goes up the slightest of things create huge problems. I agree with you. The money spent on just safety equipment to pass "tech" for those speeds.. I'd even do a liquid IC and use the meth on top of that if he has no space.

Example your motor at 450 HP can handle 200 degree IAT. It wont handle 200 degree IAT at 800 HP. Kind of make sense.

I have plenty of customers running without IC's. Dont get me wrong.. When I hear "800+hp, nasty roller cam, 70gtq.... on a small displacement motor using a factory computer" the red flags go up.

 

[bigdwg03]

I do all the metal fabrication myself of built a fee certified chassis' before so that's cheaper, shoot you don't need a certified cage and cun run swing outs till 8.50 (depending on you track officials) whats wrong with a nasty cam in a street car? My dad had a 68 GS with a Norris grind 107 'thumper' cam thing would idle at 1300rpm+ and it felt like you were getting a back massage at the stop light, so you all can blame him for ruining me lol. I'd like to run no IC mainly to clean up the under hood appearance and cause they are almost a grand and i can't make one myself (if only someone sold a weld up kit!) I know a few guys running FAST and a few running HP tuners (OBDI) and it seems like you can do all the same things with both. Why buy another computer?

 

[kshef]

so you want to run 8's but don't have $1,000 to spend on an intercooler?

 

[bigdwg03]

I don't want to if I don't have to. It would make the turbo plumbing look a lot cleaner and I'd save money. The purpose of the thread was to see if I COULD do it, who wants to spend a 1,000 bucks if they don't have to?

 

[turbo6man]

Torque convertor

I was thinking that all parts come together to form a combo that works to obtain your goals, and in order to get a torque converter to couple efficiently and to run the times stated, how would that same converter work at 10 psi on the street. The reason I ask is because, I have just purchased a torque converter to reach my goals of high nines. It was built and designed for 25+ lbs of boost. Upon initial tuning I can tell you it does not work for 15PSI (which I knew and was clearly told before purchase) with my gear ratio/tire height/rpm's. It couples way to hard for the horsepower made at 15psi and makes for a very unhappy street driver. At higher boost it is a different story though:biggrin: Just thinking out loud. Best of luck to you and I would love to see pictures of this cars build.

 

[Razor]

I don't want to if I don't have to. It would make the turbo plumbing look a lot cleaner and I'd save money. The purpose of the thread was to see if I COULD do it, who wants to spend a 1,000 bucks if they don't have to?

Get the car built and put on a system. Work up on performance and see where things take you. Big roller cam will set of the knock sensor and make tuning harder.

Somethings one cant tell until you get knee deep into them.

The advantage to using the FAST is the datalogging, wide band correction, and its purposely built for racing. The OBD1 system is designed for fuel economy in mind. And only works by commanding X amount of fuel. Not reading what actual air fuel is and making adjustments.