Nasty Wendy
Perverted Lurker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Prove it. Show me one fast car running a distributor with the stock ecm. ONE* is all I ask.
*car has to be a Buick v6 powered fuel injected 86 or 87 model Turbo Regal
Stock ECM or Fast XFI???
- Thread starter 3.8vsix
- Start date
Prove it. Show me one fast car running a distributor with the stock ecm. ONE* is all I ask.
*car has to be a Buick v6 powered fuel injected 86 or 87 model Turbo Regal
turbojimmy
Supporting Member
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
The thing I'm having the hardest time understanding is how a FAST can make any more power than a stock ECU if they both provide the same fuel and spark.Maybe just having a box that says "FAST" make the car faster!
It's the red anodized aluminum box. It's much faster than the cheesy stock, tin-metal ECU cover.
Jim
BlackBandit
God loves Buicks!
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
It's cool dave, I don't mind. What I was implying was that there's better tech than a distributer and given the choice between a computer controlled DIS and a distributer (if both delivered the same spark energy) the DIS would be better. Now there are ways to deliver that spark with DIS but class rules probably don't allow them. Also I would assume FAST can control a DIS so I'm sure that's another break even type as far as power goes. FWIW the OP asked if FAST would be safer and I don't see how running a distributer makes the car safer. Maybe you could fill me in on that.
On a side note jimmy are you implying that it's the red anodizing and not the FAST writing that makes the car faster?
Seriously guys, read my posts. I know FAST has it's place. I also know it's used allot when it's not NEEDED. That doesn't mean it's not nice to have, it just means the FAST isn't the only way to go fast and with the addition of WB corrections, and just the add ons in general it doesn't give the advantage it used to. I'll say it once more. If you need it, it's better. If you don't need it then it's a little like a chrome turbo cover, it looks good but you can go just as fast with the stock one.
On a side note jimmy are you implying that it's the red anodizing and not the FAST writing that makes the car faster?
Seriously guys, read my posts. I know FAST has it's place. I also know it's used allot when it's not NEEDED. That doesn't mean it's not nice to have, it just means the FAST isn't the only way to go fast and with the addition of WB corrections, and just the add ons in general it doesn't give the advantage it used to. I'll say it once more. If you need it, it's better. If you don't need it then it's a little like a chrome turbo cover, it looks good but you can go just as fast with the stock one.
northerngn
Master Monkeywrench
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
not games intended here
just looking for the best price
its a significant investment dollar wise esp with a wife!!!hehehe
i apologize if i or my post was taken the wrong way:frown:
-dan
BLACK6PACK
1 sec reaction King
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
The main benefit of the distributor is that the XFI system can do its own 2-step setup. It can't do a 2-step with the factory ignition. So then you have to go to an MSD box. And from my brothers experience and everyone else's, the MSD box lasts about a year then takes a dump. Send it into MSD and the "fix" it, but the car never runs right again. Last I heard they told my brother to run 18-20 gap on the plugs. They said the 32 gap was way too wide.
My comments weren't direct at any individual or group, but rather at the tone the thread was starting to take.
"My PCM and beat up your PCM"!!
You get the pictures.
Look... both directions (stand alone full blown PCM like XFI, etc. or piggyback systems, like Translator Pro) are extremely sophisticated systems, and both have extremely sophisticated experts available.
No one system can be a "be all to end all". They are designed for a different niche of the market.
An adult discussion of the attributes and shortcomings (yes they all have pros and cons) of each type of system will help the OP make and educated decision.
Let's try and keep it civil and present the facts as each of us know them. Hopefully without having to denigrate the other.
"My PCM and beat up your PCM"!!
You get the pictures.
Look... both directions (stand alone full blown PCM like XFI, etc. or piggyback systems, like Translator Pro) are extremely sophisticated systems, and both have extremely sophisticated experts available.
No one system can be a "be all to end all". They are designed for a different niche of the market.
An adult discussion of the attributes and shortcomings (yes they all have pros and cons) of each type of system will help the OP make and educated decision.
Let's try and keep it civil and present the facts as each of us know them. Hopefully without having to denigrate the other.
BlackBandit
God loves Buicks!
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2003
The scanmaster used the ALDL which is a function of the stock ECU. If you remove the stock ECU (ie:install FAST) you will not have the ability to run the scanmaster.
ecm vs. fast
I have one question in the great debate. Is the advantage of the fast system in the processor speed enabling the greater ability or is it the amount of storage space for a given program. Why can't a good old dell laptop be loaded with the programs to run my fuel injectors, timing, fan turn on, etc. I think it would be cheaper overall. I think it would be beneficial and it would take another link out of the chain ( fast box + laptop), now only laptop. I know it cant only be me that think this is possible. I have an old Accel DFi and I wanted a classic Fast system when it first came out. Many said it was the best system ever and the all of a sudden( a few years later to those that were left behind ) the XFI came out. Many people sold the classic Fast to get this unit. Of course I want one because I feel like I am 2 steps behind now. Will it make my car faster or just give me the ability electronically to make my car faster? I am a firm believer in technology but would love to see old school kick butt. Long live the stock ecm and may Fast keep coming up with updates and newer and better systems.
I have one question in the great debate. Is the advantage of the fast system in the processor speed enabling the greater ability or is it the amount of storage space for a given program. Why can't a good old dell laptop be loaded with the programs to run my fuel injectors, timing, fan turn on, etc. I think it would be cheaper overall. I think it would be beneficial and it would take another link out of the chain ( fast box + laptop), now only laptop. I know it cant only be me that think this is possible. I have an old Accel DFi and I wanted a classic Fast system when it first came out. Many said it was the best system ever and the all of a sudden( a few years later to those that were left behind ) the XFI came out. Many people sold the classic Fast to get this unit. Of course I want one because I feel like I am 2 steps behind now. Will it make my car faster or just give me the ability electronically to make my car faster? I am a firm believer in technology but would love to see old school kick butt. Long live the stock ecm and may Fast keep coming up with updates and newer and better systems.
I don't think laptops have the input/output hardware necessary to run anything. It could handle all the calculation stuff no problem, it's just when you want to actually get the inj pw signal out to the injectors, or get the timing out to the coil, that you fall down with a laptop. Besides, who wants to wait while their laptop is booting up every time they want to start their car? Or have it crash while cruising down the freeway... "Dang it! Virtual memory is low??? Ah, guess I'll have to reboot it"
If you want to go minimalist like that, I'd say go MegaSquirt
John
I agree also but do anyone remember this one runnin nines on stock ecm and an armstrong chip?1987 Buick Grand National- GM High-Tech Performance Magazine
FAST definately should be easier though.
FAST definately should be easier though.
RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
With running a Buick distributor being brought up, do they have a cam sensor? Otherwise to keep SFI one would need to be added. Are the distributor XFI cars running batch fire? Or, is a cam sensor added elsewhere.
Looking at the stock '148 ECM, to run a distributor is straight forward. Checking the circuitry it is the same as the other GM C3 ECMs of the period. Signals are the same: bypass, EST, ref+, ref-. I don't see where the ref+ or EST is inverted or such.
Then change 3 calibration parameters, set the distributor base timing, and turn the key.
RemoveBeforeFlight
Looking at the stock '148 ECM, to run a distributor is straight forward. Checking the circuitry it is the same as the other GM C3 ECMs of the period. Signals are the same: bypass, EST, ref+, ref-. I don't see where the ref+ or EST is inverted or such.
Then change 3 calibration parameters, set the distributor base timing, and turn the key.
RemoveBeforeFlight
RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
Interesting, mod the distributor and just use it as the cam sensor and to distribute the coil spark to the proper cylinder.
So using it this way works with both the stock ECM and the aftermarket ECMs?
RemoveBeforeFlight
Not with stock ECM,The stock ECM wont fire the aftermarket ignition(MSD)
to fire a single coil.
Underboost
Mr. Dull
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2005
Msd Dis-4
You can also do this, make 5 test runs throw the car on the trailer drive 2k miles to Bowling Green, KY and have it take a crap as you're unloading the car off the trailer. A Pro Tree and no 2 step sucks. :redface:
You can also do this, make 5 test runs throw the car on the trailer drive 2k miles to Bowling Green, KY and have it take a crap as you're unloading the car off the trailer.
A Pro Tree and no 2 step sucks. :redface:RmvBfrFlght
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2007
This gets more interesting by the post. The original question was: can a distributor be used with a stock ECM? And a picture of a stock Buick distributor was shown. Apparently the answer to that question is, Yes:
A stock ECM and a stock Buick distributor will work together.
Now for some reason we have a modified Buick distributor along with an MSD box. Not sure where this is going.
Seems to me that a Quick Start with 6 individual coils would be the better way to go.
RemoveBeforeFlight
A stock ECM and a stock Buick distributor will work together.
Now for some reason we have a modified Buick distributor along with an MSD box. Not sure where this is going.
Seems to me that a Quick Start with 6 individual coils would be the better way to go.
RemoveBeforeFlight
Nasty Wendy
Perverted Lurker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I did not post a picture of a stock buick distributor or any other distributor for that matter. I did not specify stock/msd/other either but I guess I should have. My question was aimed toward the running the distributor set ups that have become increasingly popular in the TSM class...whatever set up that might be. The orginal distributor question is quoted here.
