Pre-Turbo Alky?
- Thread starter Pittsburghkid
- Start date
Back in the day i ran it and it worked awesome. I had a basically stock car with TE44, 36# injectors and a TT alky chip. Added power plate and some other small bolt ons. I started with a SMC kit running a single M15, and moved to Razors alky kit with a M15. I was running 23psi and 26* timing and pulling 12.2-12.0@108-112 which was pretty fast at the track i was at.
I added a M10 and was able to get down into the 11.90s@112+. Then i removed teh intercooler, locked the wastegate shut and got up to 28-29psi and could pull 115 but still 11.90 some 11.80s.
I then changed all the locations, going with a M5 preturbo, a M10 aat the turbo outlet and a M15 at the throttle body. This netted me 30-32psi depending on the day still on the stock motor and 26/24* timing, and put down 440whp/550wtq on the dyno still running 36# injectors and a stock downpipe.
Never got to the track with it this way, but racing my friends at the time i would have guessed it was 11.4-11.5@118-120 as i could now hang with cars that were trapping 120 on the street, and my 60' times were dropped alot as i was running a stock stall and all previous runs had 60' in the 1.90-2.0 area. Removing the IC got me into the 1.7 zone
I added a M10 and was able to get down into the 11.90s@112+. Then i removed teh intercooler, locked the wastegate shut and got up to 28-29psi and could pull 115 but still 11.90 some 11.80s.
I then changed all the locations, going with a M5 preturbo, a M10 aat the turbo outlet and a M15 at the throttle body. This netted me 30-32psi depending on the day still on the stock motor and 26/24* timing, and put down 440whp/550wtq on the dyno still running 36# injectors and a stock downpipe.
Never got to the track with it this way, but racing my friends at the time i would have guessed it was 11.4-11.5@118-120 as i could now hang with cars that were trapping 120 on the street, and my 60' times were dropped alot as i was running a stock stall and all previous runs had 60' in the 1.90-2.0 area. Removing the IC got me into the 1.7 zone
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
Whoa, our setups ITSNOTAGN are very similar, but don't listen to people who keep saying it works, the data, or the history of where it started, just be afraid you'll hurt your turbo.
Like any of us will run the same turbo for 50k anyways.
What I don't get is we have an alky vendor in here who has yet to try it and give us the data that says it doesn't work?
Like any of us will run the same turbo for 50k anyways.
What I don't get is we have an alky vendor in here who has yet to try it and give us the data that says it doesn't work?
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
No prob, people have been doing this for years, that one guy on the Aquamist thread had been for WAY longer than the last couple of years we've been talking about it on the boards.
Ok Julio, I keep poking and proding and calling you out. What will it take before you try this?:biggrin: If you do it soon, you can sell the additional parts to charlief1 and others who will venture this way more and more.
It's a win/win for you buddy, if it doesn't work you tell us and your customers why it's a waste. If it does work, then you can SELL this additional nozzle and line to your customers and tell them, show them data, on why it DOES work.
Then like I mentioned years ago you can call it the, GNVYUS INJECTION KIT. I like the ring to that, how about you?:wink:
Ok Julio, I keep poking and proding and calling you out. What will it take before you try this?:biggrin: If you do it soon, you can sell the additional parts to charlief1 and others who will venture this way more and more.
It's a win/win for you buddy, if it doesn't work you tell us and your customers why it's a waste. If it does work, then you can SELL this additional nozzle and line to your customers and tell them, show them data, on why it DOES work.
Then like I mentioned years ago you can call it the, GNVYUS INJECTION KIT. I like the ring to that, how about you?:wink:
Well the big thing is my carb/turbo system doesn't really have a chioce on where the alky goes. It's got to be in the plenum for the carb so the finer spray of the aquamist system will work much better for me and that means I can break the time barrier. 12:91 for the fastest one out there just sucks.
Ok Julio, I keep poking and proding and calling you out. What will it take before you try this?:biggrin: If you do it soon, you can sell the additional parts to charlief1 and others who will venture this way more and more.
well I look at this as look what guys are running with Julio's kit !! a few in the 9s and a LOT in the 10s. THOSE #s ALREADY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
I thought YOU were goin to show us the performance differences at the track with YOUR car WELLLLL
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
Just a reminder that I've said since day one to use this WITH Postturbo injection and that Postturbo offers the most bang for the buck.
As far as power expectations, seeing I and others have shown a 1psi increase, it would correlate to seeing max boost 1psi sooner and whatever each car would pick up with 1psi of additional boost at a better part of the comp map.
But I do plan on going to the track again, this time with the Denso I won't be left with coolant in my cylinders. But after all this and it then it works, what benefit is it to me if Julio sells kits? So why again would I keep doing all this when Julio can do it, have all the test data, and then sell kits?
As far as power expectations, seeing I and others have shown a 1psi increase, it would correlate to seeing max boost 1psi sooner and whatever each car would pick up with 1psi of additional boost at a better part of the comp map.
But I do plan on going to the track again, this time with the Denso I won't be left with coolant in my cylinders. But after all this and it then it works, what benefit is it to me if Julio sells kits? So why again would I keep doing all this when Julio can do it, have all the test data, and then sell kits?
I have no desire to shoot any liquid through my $1,400.00 turbo. As its large enough and no where near its limits. Intake temps are very low.. and things are working 100%.
If I ever get the inclination, maybe i'll try it. From a business standpoint its one variable I dont see viable for the majority. Especially when injection is already such a small market. And dont want the potential issues that can arise.. there are enough already.
Its like the hydrogen for the cars. Dont want anything to do with the issues associated.
I'll quote Clint Eastwood.. "A man has got to know his limits" :wink:
If I ever get the inclination, maybe i'll try it. From a business standpoint its one variable I dont see viable for the majority. Especially when injection is already such a small market. And dont want the potential issues that can arise.. there are enough already.
Its like the hydrogen for the cars. Dont want anything to do with the issues associated.
I'll quote Clint Eastwood.. "A man has got to know his limits" :wink:
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
Wait, it sounds like you're implying there are bigger fears with Pre than Post then. If so, I'd have to TOTALLY 1000000% disagree with you. The reasons that make Postturbo so beneficial are the same ones that cause it's MASSIVE downfall. People on here look to you for everything concerning alky, that post will scare away plenty coming from your mouth so.....
1) What happens when the alky pump for Preturbo goes dead, gets clogged up or the power wire gets disconnected/frayed vs when it would happen to Postturbo?
There isn't one fear that should matter more than this one and it happens sometimes to Postturbo users, have you had any customers lose a headgasket or motor Julio from pump issues?
Your last post sounds like you should now stop selling Postturbo kits because the damage would be over $1400. How much does a motor cost vs a turbo? (which BTW, this killing the comp wheel issue is newb 101 nowadays but it's turned into truth around here)
I'd understand just not wanting to do it, but saying it's not safe vs Postturbo is not reality. I can find 5 posts in seconds saying differently, 50 outside this community.
1) What happens when the alky pump for Preturbo goes dead, gets clogged up or the power wire gets disconnected/frayed vs when it would happen to Postturbo?
There isn't one fear that should matter more than this one and it happens sometimes to Postturbo users, have you had any customers lose a headgasket or motor Julio from pump issues?
Your last post sounds like you should now stop selling Postturbo kits because the damage would be over $1400. How much does a motor cost vs a turbo? (which BTW, this killing the comp wheel issue is newb 101 nowadays but it's turned into truth around here)
I'd understand just not wanting to do it, but saying it's not safe vs Postturbo is not reality. I can find 5 posts in seconds saying differently, 50 outside this community.
Not at all. my hands are full tuning suspension, 2-step, airfuel, timing, boost controller, methanol volume, etc.. its one more variable to deal with that to me has no immediate benefit.
Lets say best case/worse case scenario.
Best case scenario it reduces some temp coming out of the turbo and maybe makes a few HP.
Worse case scenario it screws up my turbo.
Maybe said this way, my air fuel is tuned at 10.5:1, my timing is 20 degree's.. IAT are at less than 20 over ambient at WOT through the traps.. if I want more power simply leaning it out more or increasing timing there you have it. Even upping the boost.. My goals are to stay conservative and at 160 passes on this motor.. i'm leaving well enough alone :wink:
There is a place and time for certain mods, this is not one I see any immediate reason to do, on my particular setup. Not that i'm against it, just need to make conditions that make sense to me.
Maybe when I get all my stuff figured and i'm bored as I have plenty still to tweak out.
Lets say best case/worse case scenario.
Best case scenario it reduces some temp coming out of the turbo and maybe makes a few HP.
Worse case scenario it screws up my turbo.
Maybe said this way, my air fuel is tuned at 10.5:1, my timing is 20 degree's.. IAT are at less than 20 over ambient at WOT through the traps.. if I want more power simply leaning it out more or increasing timing there you have it. Even upping the boost.. My goals are to stay conservative and at 160 passes on this motor.. i'm leaving well enough alone :wink:
There is a place and time for certain mods, this is not one I see any immediate reason to do, on my particular setup. Not that i'm against it, just need to make conditions that make sense to me.
Maybe when I get all my stuff figured and i'm bored
as I have plenty still to tweak out.
GNVYUS 1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2002
We know so much more Today about Preturbo that it's super safe considering the pump can literally fail and it won't matter.
The road shows 1psi increase over old boost settings, that's at least 10hp on our cars and 1psi faster in spoolup. This is why I think it's a no brainer to do, that extra nozzle and SS line from you probably costs $40 right?
Again, this doesn't compare to Postturbo, Preturbo is that little extra to max out the whole Alky mod itself.
Now I'm getting the dreaded Alky farts in 1st with E85, I have to see in the Wideband how fat it's running.
The road shows 1psi increase over old boost settings, that's at least 10hp on our cars and 1psi faster in spoolup. This is why I think it's a no brainer to do, that extra nozzle and SS line from you probably costs $40 right?
Again, this doesn't compare to Postturbo, Preturbo is that little extra to max out the whole Alky mod itself.
Now I'm getting the dreaded Alky farts in 1st with E85, I have to see in the Wideband how fat it's running.
It's actually: " A man has got to know his limitations"
this thread is funny,looks like there is some that think they have the nozzle in the wrong placethere is just no substitute for a matching the combo.there is more than enough in the alkykit to allow one to pust the bottum end out out of the motor if the combo is not there.see alot of guys buying huge billet turbo's,playin with nozzles,running stock trans with fast systems,and running 12's and breaking parts.
there is just no substitute for a matching the combo.there is more than enough in the alkykit to allow one to pust the bottum end out out of the motor if the combo is not there.see alot of guys buying huge billet turbo's,playin with nozzles,running stock trans with fast systems,and running 12's and breaking parts.$1400 for a turbo
Its bigger than you typically run :wink:
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