power plate Question

[strikeeagle]

This whole thing could have been settled with a few dyno pulls with all 6 cylinders instrumented with EGTs.

Of course, neither Jason or anyone else is under any obligation whatsoever to do so.

So, if you believe, buy one. If you don't, don't. And if you're not sure, stop asking, because all you'll get is more "butt dyno" stuff...

 

[Lee_Burough]

Steve,

The power plate and the flowed injectors are both working toward the same end: To even power production between the cylinders.

How much differencal flow of fuel between injectors would it take to cause problems when the power plate is installed? I don't know.

If you have a couple injectors flowing a bit more than the others, which cylinders would you put them in if you're using a power plate? I don't know.

I'll wait for some of the big boys (bruce, turbobob, JayC, Jason, Chuck Leeper, and many others with considerable talents) on the board to chime in, they'll have real data or experience to answer your questions.

 

[azgn]

LC cares less about Buicks these days and Duttweiler is not about to use a stock intake

maybe Jack has a car with a stock intake........

you are asking the wrong folks.........ask the guys going fast today with near stock setups and I think you'll find they all use it.......everyone in the 10's around here sure does

 

[BoostedBug]

Originally posted by turbosam6
"I had a hemco race upper. I could only run 14-15 psi on pump gas w/o knock. I took it off and put a pp on a stock plenum. I ran 17 psi with no knock, and the car did run smoother. I recently took that off and installed the pte upper and pp that Jason sells. Even better now. BTW, thats a great deal on the combo from Jason."

Hmm... I think Hyper was the one to make the comment on the Hemco....but you was not referencing him?


"Lately it seems like every other post has a response from some guy who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. I rarely post a tech reply unless I'm 99% SURE I'm right, or suggesting something which would not hurt the car if I'm wrong. I have much to learn about all cars, and there are a lot of members here who have a vast knowledge of TR's, which dwarfs mine. I know everyone has to learn somehow, and thats fine. But until you know what you are talking about, don't lead someone even less educated down the wrong path. I would be lost without the help I've recieved on this board, but I'm glad I joined when I did, because the new owners I see now are getting some very bad advice."

And what does this have to do with the original question on the power plate? Sounds like an opinion on a diffrent subject.

"Bottom line is this: The power plate works, and it was designed by people who know what they are doing, not some back yard mechanic with a get rich quick scheme. I bet most of the fast guys on here use them, so what does that tell you?"

Allot of fast guys can throw a turd on there car and say it helps for the right amount. This doesn't tell me anything, there are allot of variables out there and some people would like a clear answer before they throw down $60 for a majical plate.

"BTW- new guys- look at the signature of the people who post to your questions. When you see a guy with a mile long sig and a best et of 14.70 or something, take that with a grain of salt. When you see a guy with something wicked fast, he may just know what he's talking about. For example: My signature- yeah, its sorta fast, but check out that short time! DO NOT ask me how to hook! Ask the dude with the 1.45 60', he left me sittin'."

Hmm lets see I can change my signature to say I run 9.40's does this meen I am the man..No! I do not even post my times in my signature or mods to my car..Reason? It would take more than 5 lines!


When you break it all down it is simply this. People want ot know the in's and out's of the plate. Do you remember back in the day of the majical box that will give you a tenth and 3 mph in the 1/4 for $90? Took it apart and all it was is a jumper to lock the torque convertor up!

These are some honest questions that just need to be answered. I just bought the plate myself but I to think it serves as a restricter plate.

 

[azgn]

well, put it on your car and answer your questions!

 

[BoostedBug]

Thanks Woody for the Input. I plan on having it on this week after I finish the TE63-1 turbo upgrade.

And to the others on here complaining about people asking a question or two about this What is wrong with that?

Here are mine:

Why the triangles? Why not round holes? Why no egr hole? Why is it so thin? Why are there no deflectors? Would this hurt or help? How much air flow is lost due to the restriction? What about additional heat generated? Wouldn't a spacer style help evenmore?


Anyone?

 

[Hyper]

You may believe that I dont know "how to build " a fast car, and tha LC, Jack, Jason are the big dogs. But the truth be known only LC has ran faster than my car. Right My car went 7:46@187. No it was not a buick It was a Dodge. But still I know what makes a motor run. I do this for a living! I like the post about let some one make some pulls with the plate on a engine with egt's in all 6. Then everyone will know. I get drilled because I ask how it works and I dont understand how it could work. You use the word "dude" so you must be very young. I dont mean this tread to turn bad. It is for information only. I have already responed to Jason, and I hope he understands my thoughts. I know how to build a 1,000 hp motor so I am no wanta be, My post numbers are low because I left the board for a year and did not remember my log on. I registered again and started over.

I am the little dog sitting on the porch watching and asking, but I know things you don't.

lets keep this tread as a information one and not a flame throwing one.

thanks

 

[Randy Greenoe]

Originally posted by BoostedBug
Same boost and it made 12 more hp?

NO adjustments! That was part of the deal.Make a pull put the PP on and make another pull!I have no reason to B.S. you as I don't even have a PP

 

[BoostedBug]

I will take your word for it Randy..I am putting it on this week. I won't be able to tell if the pp helped as I am changing out my TE44 for this TE63-1 I just got.

Thanks for the honesty.....

 

[zam70]

Originally posted by BoostedBug
Here are mine:

Why the triangles? Why not round holes? Why no egr hole? Why is it so thin? Why are there no deflectors? Would this hurt or help? How much air flow is lost due to the restriction? What about additional heat generated? Wouldn't a spacer style help evenmore?
Anyone?

I am by NO means a mechanical engineer ..BUT I am a "back yard" engineer. the difference? Engineers believe in theory and what they see on paper...Backyard engineers believe what they experience and learn by the application of PLAIN COMMON SENSE and mistakes. SO....here's my take on it

Why the triangles?
To manipulate the flow of air. There's no rhyme or reason to it...Jason stuck the sucker on a flow bench (assembled with heads and intake) and came up with the shapes he did because they gave him the results he was after. With further experimentation, many different combinations of shapes (even circles or flower shapes) probably would have given the same results. Why bother though...

Why no egr hole?
Not every one runs an EGR. It's easier for the end user to drill a whole than fill a whole.


Why is it so thin?
It doesn't need to be thicker. Plus, if it was thicker, you would need new bolts among other things.


Why are there no deflectors?
They aren't needed. The flow of air is controlled by shape.


How much air flow is lost due to the restriction?
Ok...take out a tape measure. Measure the area of your stock plenum. Now, measure the holes in the power plate. Which # is higher? Fact is, the stock intake plenum is Larger than it needs to be. Look at the intake setup on a GM TPI 350...the actual volume is small. Does it make any sense to put a larger area after the throttle body? Smaller the better. The throttle body only flows so much...AND let's not forget, not all 6 cylinders are taking air at the same time.


I run a Big Block blower engine...there is a similar plate (for lack of a better comparison word) that was once used with blowers. It's purpose? To more evenly disribute air....Guess what? It was outlawed because it offered an unfair advantage to the users.


In a forced induction engine things work different than in a normally aspirated one. Don't make the mistake in applying the same logic...it doesn't work. When pressurized, an intake charge is going to go, well...some where...everywhere...it's not so much a matter of flow as it is a matter of direction. Kinda like the "gasket match" thing on the intake...it's been proven time and time again that this is a WASTE OF TIME in a forced induction engine, but hell....I still do it. Old habits are hard to break.

Bottom line is, try it. It's $59.00. I've wasted more money on cleaning supplies or beer. The plate worked for me. it might work for you...it might not.

 

[turbosam6]

OK Hyper, understand this please: I did not in any way name you, or even elude to the fact that I was talking about you. I thought I made that clear. As for my age, I'm 25, and I fail to see where thats an issue. I like zam70's post, it explains a lot. Like azgn said, most 10 second guys here have one, you just have to buy one and try it out. I'm not trying to start a war here, and certainly never mentioned your name or your credibility. I'm sure you are a very successful engine builder, and its impressive what you build. You say its your job, well its Jasons job to know his stuff, too. You obviously don't like to be doubted, and he probably doesn't either.

Boostedbug, I'm not complaining about people asking questions, after all, thats how to learn. However, I think its been covered, but still guys are disagreeing with Jasons research. Thats not asking questions, thats arguing. Theres at least 3 or 4 posts in this thread that explain clearly how and why this plate works.

And if you change your sig to suggest your car is faster than it really is, I bet it would only be a matter of time before someone showed you up. It takes extreme intelligence to build and tune something that fast, I don't think that could be faked.

 

[Quick6]

Originally posted by strikeeagle
This whole thing could have been settled with a few dyno pulls with all 6 cylinders instrumented with EGTs.

Of course, neither Jason or anyone else is under any obligation whatsoever to do so.

It sure would make for some interesting reading and it would finally end this debate.

 

[TT4U2NV]

I myself plan on getting a PP soon.
With proper tuning to my car. I can benefit from a HP and torque increase.
But that is not the main reason for me wanting to get 1.
As Jason and others have stated earlier. It helps out by evenly distributing the airflow to all the cylinders.
$50 may seem like quite a bit of money for a sheetmetal plate.
But... If you think about it.
It's less of a headache and a hell of alot easier to install than a
head gasket and a new intake gasket.
Not to mention cheaper.
Bout $50 per HG and $25 for an intake gasket.
What does it take to install a Power Plate? 30 minutes or so.
How long does it take to R & R a cylinder head and intake manifold.

Jason. I'll be buying 1 of those sometime soon.
For right now. I'm working on finishing the walls in my garage so I can heat it.
Which will allow me the opportunity to install the RJC Plate.

 

[BoostedBug]

Good points and thanks for the input. I do have one more question...What is the diffrence of the RJC plate and the one on EBAY that is more then half the price.... It looks the same...

Again I want to say I own a RJC plate right now brand new in the package. I am not wanting to cause problems but when you have 2 that are just alike and a big diffrence in price has me curious.

 

[turbo buicks]

well the one on Ebay could be a PP that someone has copied. a sheetmetal worker friend of mine saw the plate and was like "i could make this very easily" but i decided to buy it b/c it was Jasons idea first and i give credit where it is due. unless they did their own testing and everything Jason did then they are just using what he did to make a buck. that is wrong and illegal i think. ask Jason for some weird technical thing about the plate tests that most wouldnt know and then email that to the seller and see what he says. if he doesnt know or makes an excuse then hes probably a fake. go with a proven plate from a proven vendor.

 

[strikeeagle]

PP knock-offs? What's this world coming to???

 

[turbo buicks]

could you post a link to one of thes PP knock offs please Bug?

 

[turbo buicks]

ok everyone is asking all these questions about the plate and why its triangle openings are not circles and what not and i think i can answer all your questions:

http://www.rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_Products/RJC_A_D__Power_Plate/rjc_a_d__power_plate.html

http://www.rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_Products/RJC_A_D__Power_Plate/ADPP_Questions/adpp_questions.html


http://www.rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_...er_Plate/Flow_Comparison/flow_comparison.html

im sure if you care to call Jason up on the number on the bottom of the page and argue with his hours and hours of testing and R&R then he would be more than happy to answer your questions/doubts/arguements.

 

[Two Lane]

USING THE "SEARCH" FEATURE

Thanks for supplying the links to some of the MANY prior threads on the Power Plate, TurboBuicks. Maybe that will encourage others to enjoy the benefits from utilizing the Search feature.

The Search feature is a wonderful time-saving research tool to
serve as a primary reference for lots of recurring questions.
________________________________________________

The only "new" news about the PP in this thread is: someone is making a rip-off copy.

I'd think that if someone enjoys the benefits of the Buick community (like this Messageboard and the help of its members), they'd never want to support a low-life copy-cat in ripping off Jason.

 

[The Radius Kid]

Re: USING THE "SEARCH" FEATURE

Originally posted by Two Lane


The only "new" news about the PP in this thread is: someone is making a rip-off copy.

Apparently they were selling knock offs on E-Bay right after the P/P came out.
So even that's old news[was in another thread a while back].