power plate Question

[Two Lane]

Maybe some of these night-crawling rodents prospering from the labors of others will have a Sales Booth at BG/Bristol/Norwalk/ET.

Then, we can show our appreciation in person for their valuable contribution.
_________________________________________________

(Thanks, TRK...so that means there was no new news in the prior 4-pgs.)

 

[Race Jace]

I too would like to test the plate with a 6 chanel egt. Then for sure strike eagle would be convinced

this guy on e-bay owns a cutlery business in Canada and does not even own a buick.

Since he is in Canada it is a little harder to deal with when it comes to legal matters. I have threatened him with legal litigation. He is actually in violation of trade dress infringement. Which basically states that your product can be confused with or mistaken for an original name brand product which entitles the name brand company to any compensation due to the loss of sales incurred.


I have one of his plates sitting right here in front of me. It looks similar but is not the same.
As I have stated before, the shape, edge brake, surface finish, thickness and exact profile is critical. Most guys look at the plate and think “hell I could make that” but it is not as simple and non critical as it might seem. I have spent countless hours getting the profile exactly right. I actually have a whole stack of prototype plates that are a lot closer to the finished profile than the e-bay plate that I can’t sell them because they just don’t flow right.

These critical eliments of the plate are why I had to make specific plates for the various plenums that are out there. I wish I could use the stock style plate on the other plenums. It sure would have saved me a bunch of time but the stock plate on the aftermarket plenums are not even close to flowing correctly. You can tell that from looking at the design differences in the plates. They are quite different.

I can understand turbosam6’s frustration with posts. I think what he is trying to say is that some times post are stating opinions and they are being view as sound advise. I am not really referring to this post or any one in particular. All we can do is each of us structure our posts as informative as possible. Don’t take posts as personal attacks. Remember we are all in this together with a common goal of going continuing our support and passion for the turbo regal.

 

[turbo buicks]

jason, if i add a JJ 62mm TB to my stock plenum w/PP will i need a new PP?

 

[Two Lane]

TB,

That's a pretty common combo...Jay also addressed it earlier and the outcome of the thread was that they complement each other...the PP evens flow, & the JJ TB & plenum removes flow obstructions/smooths flow.

(Use the PP for the stock plenum.)

HTH

 

[turbo buicks]

thanks TL,

gotta remember to use that Search feature, LOL

 

[Two Lane]

LOL!!

 

[325DR]

Originally posted by turbo buicks
jason, if i add a JJ 62mm TB to my stock plenum w/PP will i need a new PP?

No, if you have a pp for a stock plenum, modifying the stock plenum will not require you to use a different pp. I did the same thing you did, and did not need to change it.




To add to this thread (as one of the "faster" cars on the site (11.10@123)), I can say that one of the main reasons this plate is on my car is for the even air distribution to all the cylinders. Have you ever seen a piston with a hole in the middle from running excessivly lean? When drag racing a car that makes 600hp, there is no room for error. Detonation will grenade the motor, so detonation MUST be avoided.

The Power Plate made my #5 and #6 plugs turn golden brown instead of white like they were before the plate. Even if my e.t doesnt pick up, the plate will remain on my car. There is nothing out there for stock motored 231 TR's that will do what this plate does.

I do not have back to back runs before and after the plate because other changes were made at the same time. However, I am able to run 18# of boost without knock on 93 octane. I give a lot of credit to the PP for this.

Just my O2.

 

[turbo buicks]

cool. i emailed Jason a while back and he said what you said except he said i can port/have ported the stock plenum also as long as i didnt touch the rear wall of the plenum.

 

[Matt Weiser]

If you ask me, the cylinder-by-cylinder flow comparison on Jace's site is the most telling thing of all. Granted, this comparison comes from the manufacturer, but together with so many real-life stories from people who've benefited from the plate, I'm sold.

I'm trying to get a handle on a persisent knock problem I've got using California's weak 91 octane gas. It could be caused by several factors, but the GM-built cylinder imbalance has got to be a big one. I've got a Power Plate on order from John's Performance, and for $59 it's well worth a try and could be a much cheaper solution than the other options available to me. I'll report back some results as soon as I burn through a couple tanks of gas with the PP.

 

[bishir]

I think for 60 dollars a plate someone should do some proven dyno tests. All variables need to stay the same except the powerplate.

If I had a plate to copy I'd make one myself. There is nothing wrong with that as long as I'm not trying to make money by selling a patented object. I'm using it for personal use! True, the maker deserves money for the idea, but I think 60 bucks is high for some plate that I can't prove works. Hell, people have told me the "Tornado" works, but I don't believe them. It's not that I'm saying it doesn't work, but isn't it kinda like the Tornado? Until we can have solid proof that a piece of thin metal, that costs 60 bucks, and adds 15 HP works then I think everyone on this board has the right to ask questions regarding this. So far the word is good, but whats wrong with questioning? That's the only way we learn...

James

 

[jastrckl]

bishir: people don't read plugs anymore. the rear two cylinders normally run lean, so you can tell that when you read the plugs. after my plate, the rear two holes run richer. sounds like I got my $60 worth of knock protection, and my butt dyno didn't notice any impairment in performance.

 

[GNX]

Originally posted by bishir
If I had a plate to copy I'd make one myself. There is nothing wrong with that as long as I'm not trying to make money by selling a patented object. I'm using it for personal use!

James

That means the same as: a racing team is out on the Bonneville Salt Flats with several millions of dollars in design and wind tunnel testing, etc. on their race car's outer body. They leave the racer car unatended and you walk up and start measuring it... making a "copy" of the outer body shell. You see nothing wrong with that as long as you're not trying to make money by selling a patented object? Whichever way you look at it that's theft... stealing. OH...FORGOT...it's for your personal use! I know there are people that wouldn't welcome you with open arms even if it wasn't PATENTED.

I noticed that you're a teacher. I hope it's not with children... but rather with people with your similar moral outlook... like maybe teaching in a prison. JMO

Any other opinions?

 

[Russ Merritt]

WOW!!!!! Thanks for bustin balls makin this thing work man, now I'll just get the tracin paper and..............Bishir, you really that cheap you can't spend the 60$ FOR SOMEONES REALLY HARD F%$@#^ WORK!!!!!!!!!

 

[BoostedBug]

Get real! What did GM and Chrysler do to Henry Ford..Want to compare apples to apples.....

Now this is getting real funny

 

[turbosam6]

No sh!t, its like $60! What else can you buy for $60 that will do this much?? Did you even read what Jason said? Its not that easy to make one. You are not paying $60 for a plate, you are paying $60 for SOMEONES HARD WORK AND RESEARCH! Sure its only a piece of metal. And sheetmetal intakes are only metal. So are ATR headers. Hell, the whole frickin' car is metal! Those thing are obviously priced higher than their material value, because someone had to do lots of work to design them. If I designed the power plate, I'd get at least $100 bucks for one, and still sell alot. Its easily worth that much. I think Jason almost did this as a favor to us, selling them for $59.

I was going to volunteer to make 2 dyno pulls, with and without the plate, but screw that. No way I'm pushing 25 psi with a TE 45A without my power plate! I ain't runnin' without it. Let the doubters doubt, just one more slow car for me to take cash from when its go time. I'll be spendin' your money while you'll be changin' them headgaskets!

 

[Hyper]

"I was going to volunteer to make 2 dyno pulls, with and without the plate, but screw that"

what kinda of statment was that? You dont have to run 25psi, hell run the motor at 20psi with the plate and without the plate.

As far a making a copy I bet you I could, I would even send it to jason to check. I bet I could do it exact down to the mill. But I will not unless Jason ask me to.

I am sitting hoping someone that has nothing to do with Jason company will step up and test this plate and settle this all!

If I had a dyno I would. Free !!!

Jack are you watching this tread? Can you test it and give us a closure to this?

I dont know why some people get so mad when someone ask a question, chill out and take it easy.

If I would have picked up all the "tenths" that every part I bought over the years would have worked I would be at the finish line before I even started and this was all by the famous Kenny Bell, all of his hard work and long hours made him rich. I work for my money like everyone else and I allways ask before I buy. If a product works and you want to sell, back it up with real data done by someone esle.

Also why smooth out the throttle body when you have your air hitting a flat plate?

And if the #1 vavle opens with 20 psi of boost pushing air into it, how does the #6 know it is at the back with the same 20 psi pushing air into it. Seems to me both should get the same amount of air under boost. Maybe if fuel or water was intered into this it would go to the rear because of weight, but air is what boost is and 20psi pushing by the vavle on the front is the same as the rear. It should work like hydrulics(SP). If I am wrong please explain why? The engine under boost conditions doesnt know where #1 or #6 is. It fills the intake with pressure and when a valve opens that amount of presure fills the cylinder.

does anyone see what I am saying? do I make any kind of since?

Please let me know I do not take offence to any comments.

thanks

 

[bishir]

I knew everyone was going to jump on my case when I typed that but facts are facts. If you're going to charge 60 dollars for something that people can copy easily at home then it will be done. Have I done it? No, but I would consider it if I wasn't sure it was worth buying and I wanted to try it out.

BTW, I'd copy the headers too if I knew how and could do it for less $$$. Please don't tell me racing teams don't steal each other's ideas because they do all the time!

What's dishonest about it? Am I breaking a law? No Am I lying about it? No


Plus, I don't think anybody is doing us a favor by selling us a 50 cent part for 60 dollars. Just my opinion and you know what people say about those....


If I could copy the plate I'd do it plain and simple. BTW, 60 bucks is a lot of money to me. If it's not a lot of money to you then buy the plate for me.


James

 

[turbosam6]

Thats the kind of statement made by a guy who does not like to change headgaskets Hyper. If somebody wants to give me $50 for 2 dyno pulls at the next gsca club dyno day in april, I'll set it to 20 psi and run with and without the plate. I'm not spending my money to prove what almost everyone here already knows: The power plate works.

I think the answers to your other questions have already been covered elsewhere in this thread.

 

[turbosam6]

Bishir, let me share my philosophy with you. Yes, you can copy the plate, and maybe it will work. I doubt it, but its your car. We could all copy the plate. But then Jason makes no money. So he has no money for development of any future products. If everyone did this, no body would make any new parts for you to copy, leaving you stuck with old technology. No, you are not robbing Jason, you are robbing the rest of us who want and need good products from good companys, and are willing to pay for it. If everyone does stuff like this, then no one will make new parts for us. Then you will have to come up with stuff all on your own, and I didn't see anyone else stepping up and fixing these airflow problems. We owe it to Jason to support his research and education by buying his products, just like any other vendors.

I spend a lot on my car, and I do it with many good companies, because I want them to have the means to make stuff to make my car go faster.

Speed cost money, how fast do you want to go?

And if $60 is alot of money for a speed part, get another hobby, cuz you ain't even at the tip of the iceberg. I spent somewhere around $14000 on my car this last year, and its still slow!

 

[GNX]

An idea=plate. A DESIGN that is COPIED = cheat. Like in " I copied from the other guy in school." Again it's a moral issue. It means something to some and S$%# to others.

It is BREAKING THE LAW if the PP is copywrited. That has to do with DESIGN....not IDEA.....DUH!

As far as Ford, Chrysler, and GM. They didn't and don't have the same DESIGN. And the IDEA for a CAR started long before Henry...DUDES!

I've worked for racing teams and IDEAS may be stolen or "borrowed" but the DESIGN is always a little different...or else "stuff" happens!